Scotland's decision

[les_taxi]

Very interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29011507

[Arthur Little]

Very interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29011507

It IS indeed ... and my memory stretches 15 years' further back - to the dying embers of Colonial - than that of my namesake, fellow Scot and author of the article contained in the link you've posted, Les.

Therefore, I for one, will be voting 'NO THANKS'!

[les_taxi]

Just been listening to another biased debate on 5 live. They seem to get well educated yes voters v no voter's who have less knowledge and come across badly.
Gives an unfair advantage to yes voters.

[Dedworth]

Just been listening to another biased debate on 5 live. They seem to get well educated yes voters v no voter's who have less knowledge and come across badly.
Gives an unfair advantage to yes voters.

Typical Biased Broadcasting Corporation

[Trefor]

I think the vote will be No. However, I actually hope it will be Yes. That way Labour won't get back in again once the separation happens.

One thing I don't look forward to is the press activity over years following a Yes vote - what we/they do with debt, borders, currency, trade, cross-border health/policing, military (Scottish Army/Navy/Air Force), immigration etc. I'm sure Trident won't actually be a big deal in the end.

[les_taxi]

I think the vote will be No. However, I actually hope it will be Yes. That way Labour won't get back in again once the separation happens

Every cloud ...!

[Iani]

I'm wondering, if there is a 'YES' vote, will the Scottish people be ordered to surrender their British passports - because they won't be British citizens anymore.

Of course Salmond(ella) wants the teenager style independence, where he can have all the trappings, but comes home to do his washing, so he'll probably argue the citizens of his independent country should still have the world-respected (yes, I know, it used to be until certain scumbags in this country abused our name) British passport.

Surely he should have to issue Scottish passports, and............well they might have to get visas to visit Magaluf with the same difficulty people from the Philippines have to get tourist visas to the UK, but hey

Seriously though - what's going to happen there?

Anyway, if there's a 'NO' vote, everyone knows what will happen. Salmond will say, "Oh more people voted 'yes' this time, and we have something to build on, and we'll push for a new referendum next year"............etc

[les_taxi]

I'm wondering, if there is a 'YES' vote, will the Scottish people be ordered to surrender their British passports - because they won't be British citizens anymore.

Of course Salmond(ella) wants the teenager style independence, where he can have all the trappings, but comes home to do his washing, so he'll probably argue the citizens of his independent country should still have the world-respected (yes, I know, it used to be until certain scumbags in this country abused our name) British passport.

Surely he should have to issue Scottish passports, and............well they might have to get visas to visit Magaluf with the same difficulty people from the Philippines have to get tourist visas to the UK, but hey

Seriously though - what's going to happen there?

Anyway, if there's a 'NO' vote, everyone knows what will happen. Salmond will say, "Oh more people voted 'yes' this time, and we have something to build on, and we'll push for a new referendum next year"............etc

You are probably right - Salmond is too conceited to concede defeat if that's the outcome. But I don't think they can have another vote for years unless it's worth a recount virtually. Tbh, if they said they would push for another vote, I would hope we'd tell 'em to piss off - we will divorce them.

[andy222]

Let the Scots decide - its their choice. On the other hand, if they vote to stay with UK and in our referendum we decide to come out of Europe will Scotland be better off?

[Arthur Little]

Let the Scots decide - its their choice. On the other hand, if they vote to stay with UK and in our referendum we decide to come out of Europe will Scotland be better off?

... IMO, Andy, we would ALL be better off remaning as one United Kingdom cut free from the shackles that bind us to the stifling dictates of the EU.

[andy222]

There are fors and againsts Arthur. I have seen the debates and they were interesting. Its up to you my friend and the other Scottish people to decide. It's a tricky one, Scotland may not have another chance like this.

[joebloggs]

First poll with the 'YES' vote leading

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...save-the-union

[SimonH]

http://thumbsnap.com/5czF7Xp2

[KeithD]

The Yes camp won't win, they'll be hammered by 5% or more according to all other polls.

[Michael Parnham]

Whatever the outcome it won't be overwhelming!

[stevewool]

Whatever the outcome, will it affect ME? I DON'T THINK SO

[joebloggs]

looks like some labour voters are switching to yes, knowing there will never be a Tory gov in Scotland again.

but at the same time voting yes would make it a ot more difficult for the labour party to win in the UK without the labour Scottish MP's

[les_taxi]

voting yes would make it a ot more difficult for the labour party to win in the UK without the labour Scottish MP's

Thats the only bit I like about a Yes result

[les_taxi]

I'm still willing to take bets on this
I'm 100% convinced the result will be no

[joebloggs]

I'm still willing to take bets on this
I'm 100% convinced the result will be no

Ok Les, I give you £10 if its no and you give me £100 if its yes after all, you are

100% convinced the result will be no.

[les_taxi]

ok Les, i give you £10 if its no and you give me £100 if its yes after all you are

Yes, but I'm no mug either

Straight bet only

[SimonH]

Worth a read


In 2012-13 public spending in Scotland was £65.2 Billion. Taxation excluding North Sea Revenues was £47.6 Bn. The gap of £17.6 Bn is quoted as 14% of GDP which indicates that Scotland’s GDP was around £126 Bn. The estimate from the Scottish Government is £132Bn for 2014 (including geographic share of Oil Revenues).
In 2012-13 North Sea Oil brought in around £6.2Bn to the UK and based on a geographic 90% share an independent Scotland would get £5.6Bn of that. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility is predicting that these levels will fall in the years ahead £3.4Bn in 2015-16, £2.9Bn in 2016-17 and £3.2Bn in 2018-19. As a personal note I hadn’t realized oil was such a small part of the total income for the UK.
Assuming the status quo (using figures from 2012-13) then income level for Scotland would be £53.2Bn (47.6 + 5.6) and public spending would be £65.2Bn.
For the whole of the UK GDP for 2012-13 was £1,570Bn so subtracting the £132Bn for Scotland that leaves £1,438Bn. Public spending for the whole of the UK was £731Bn so subtracting the £65Bn for Scotland leaves £666Bn. Total income from Taxation for the UK was £592Bn so subtracting £53Bn for Scotland that leaves £539Bn.
Nearly there….
Scotland population 5.314 Million, income £53.2 Billion so available budget per head is £10,011 per annum
Remainder of the UK population 59 Million, income £666 Billion so available budget per head is £11,288 per annum
Actual public spending per head for 2012-13 is quoted as £8,788 for the UK as a whole and £10,152 per head for Scotland
Finding and interpreting this information is pretty complex so some of my numbers may be wrong. If it’s even close to being right though I will be surprised if people vote in favour as these numbers suggest to me that the economic position of Scotland would decline significantly.

[joebloggs]

Yes but I'm no mug either

Straight bet only

So you're not 100% convinced then

[les_taxi]

Whoever would've thought Germany would trounce Brazil 7-1

Too many weird results these days to give you odds.

[tiger31]

I don,t think people really understand the full implications of a split. The young ones more so. How an earth can a 16 year old understand what,s at stake here. For a start, many English companies I believe, will relocate south. I think there will be massive job losses all over the place. With only 5 million of a population they will be hard pressed looking after the old people moneywise.

If the currency issue is not resolved, the house prices will collapse and people who thought they were well off will suddenly find themselves poor. The only good thing that might come out of it is they might join the Schengen scheme then I,ll get the missus in quicker lol, then sneak over the border in a rowing boat at Berwick-upon-Tweed, coz they can,t make up their mind if they are English or Scotch lol.

[les_taxi]

I don,t think people really understand the full implications of a split. The young ones more so. How an earth can a 16 year old understand what,s at stake here? For a start, many English companies I believe, will relocate south. I think there will be massive job losses all over the place. With only 5 million of a population they will be hard pressed looking after the old people moneywise.

If the currency issue is not resolved, the house prices will collapse and people who thought they were well off will suddenly find themselves poor. The only good thing that might come out of it is they might join the Schengen scheme then I,ll get the missus in quicker lol then sneak over the border in a rowing boat at Berwick-upon-Tweed, coz they can,t make up their minds if they are English or Scotch lol

Totally agree Tiger - think it's based too much on flag-waving, Braveheart and I think slightly anti English stance.

I asked a woman about a year ago - she was about 35 a true Celt and she slagged off the English like you would not believe

The other 45 or so people I asked - generally over 50 - said definitely NO -they were considered in their opinion.

What's done harm to the campaign is English MPs - and even I admit the Tories have got too much involved and it has looked like we have been telling the Scots what to do.

That's never going to go down well with a proud jock.

I really believe they will live to regret it, but I for one will have no sympathy - you leave the Big Club and you have very little to fall back on. It's better to have the security of the UK behind you.

[Pete/London]

It seems to me that if it's Yes, they will have the best of both worlds. If their Economy grows, they will make the English very unwelcome as they seem to be doing now. If the economy nosedives, they will flock across our porous border like the rest of the world has done, make a living including Tax Credits and Child Benefits and holiday back in Scotland.

I can't see us throwing the Scots out of England or putting up a secure border.

[les_taxi]

As it gets nearer, it's going to get dirtier!

[Doc Alan]

( From " Private Eye " )



Regardless of how many watched the Independence debates, there’s much more interest now – not just in Scotland – about the outcome of the September 18 referendum.


I’ve already made the case for exempting OUR NHS from any further changes, should there be a " Yes " vote next week. NHS systems have been different across the UK since devolution 14 years ago, but there is still union - in the sense that patients may be treated wherever is best for them without fear of cost. There are excellent healthcare workers and hospitals in all four countries .


Nationalists have set a date of March 2016 to separate from the UK. It’s highly likely, IF there was a " Yes " vote, that this time scale is too ambitious ! Expect long and wide-ranging, probably ill-tempered, negotiations, and changes which would affect all of us .





Robert Burns, born almost 200 years before Alex Salmond, was a Scottish Nationalist ! In the event of a " Yes " vote, I guess I will have at least 18 months to spend this note after last week’s visit to the city where I was born, studied, and worked as a young doctor – Glasgow !


I’m no expert, and usually avoid political debate on this Forum, but it does seem that currency is one major issue to be resolved. Of the four options ( currency union with the UK; " sterlingisation " ; separate currency ; joining the euro ) many experts seem to favour union. Independence would be bad for Scotland’s economy and could disrupt the UK’s recovery.


I can’t vote – I chose to live in England. But I very much hope that the Union will be saved. Devolution … yes ! Independence … no !

[KeithD]

Most companies who do companies with the EU would have to move south to continue doing so. It will take about a decade for Scotland to qualify to join the EU.