The good old days

[Dedworth]

BBC News - When murderers were hanged quickly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28688474

[Terpe]

And sometimes wrongly

[Dedworth]

And sometimes wrongly

Very rarely - perhaps not have death as mandatory but certainly where there is irrefutable proof or confession

[Michael Parnham]

I still think capital punishment should be brought back. Many people would still be alive today because a lot of the murderers would have thought twice before committing such crimes. With regard to the wrong person being put to death, I believe if you never commit any crime you should have nothing to worry about.

Besides with today's technology and DNA results, it would be very unlikely the wrong person would be convicted of murder and the taxpayer would benefit long term. Also the prisons would be almost empty!

[Terpe]

Very rarely....

Derek Bentley 1953. Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment, but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

[Dedworth]

I still think capital punishment should be brought back. Many people would still be alive today because a lot of the murderers would have thought twice before committing such crimes. With regard to the wrong person being put to death, I believe if you never commit any crime you should have nothing to worry about.

Besides, with todays technology and DNA results, it would be very unlikely the wrong person would be convicted of murder and the taxpayer would benefit long term also the prisons would be almost empty!

Good points Michael - the advances in DNA have been tremendous, I read the other day of a conviction being secured in a previously unsolved 25 year old abduction & rape.

The deterrent effect would be huge and would instantly stop many scumbags carrying knives

I'd also follow Singapore & Malaysia's line and string up drug traffickers

[Arthur Little]

BBC News - When murderers were hanged quickly

................................................. 's true ... they were certainly despatched with "breakneck speed"!

[fred]

Derek Bentley 1953.Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment , but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

Excellent points made there Peter and I agree with them all.



We should let the dust settle with guys like this in prison and then leave the rest with hardened life convicts to sort.. A slow tortured existence without ever knowing if its safe to even drink a cup of coffee in case it's laced with ground glass..
Death is a luxury they don't deserve.
At least then, the wrongly convicted have a chance.
The Birmingham 6 would testify to that and countless others.

[Doc Alan]

Very rarely - perhaps not have death as mandatory but certainly where there is irrefutable proof or confession

Dr Harold Shipman was jailed 14 years before your " Doctors in the Dock " thread - for killing 15 of his patients ( and probably at least 200 more ). This British GP, a graduate of Leeds Medical School, was the UK's worst serial killer. He was found hanging in his cell 4 years later.


This ONE evil doctor may put into context the " disproportionate number of foreign doctors struck off " in more recent years.

Sadly nothing guarantees that the UK could not have another " Dr Shipman " , but many changes for the better followed the recommendations of the " Shipman Enquiry ".


These did NOT include punishment by hanging, but DID improve death certification ; investigation of deaths by Coroners ; and regulation of controlled drugs in the community; with a radical shake up of the GMC such that it would include non-medical members, and formation of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, also with non-medical members. Doctors are now regularly " revalidated " ( appraised ) to ensure they're up to date and safe.

[Dedworth]

Dr Harold Shipman was jailed 14 years before your " Doctors in the Dock " thread - for killing 15 of his patients ( and probably at least 200 more ). This British GP, a graduate of Leeds Medical School, was the UK's worst serial killer. He was found hanging in his cell 4 years later.


This ONE evil doctor may put into context the " disproportionate number of foreign doctors struck off " in more recent years.

Sadly nothing guarantees that the UK could not have another " Dr Shipman " , but many changes for the better followed the recommendations of the " Shipman Enquiry ".


These did NOT include punishment by hanging, but DID improve death certification ; investigation of deaths by Coroners ; and regulation of controlled drugs in the community; with a radical shake up of the GMC such that it would include non-medical members, and formation of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, also with non-medical members. Doctors are now regularly " revalidated " ( appraised ) to ensure they're up to date and safe.

Thanks Doc - I heard a radio programme a couple of years ago where (as you say) they were speculating there could have been dozens more victims. Wasn't it another Doctor who figured out that Shipman always certified his own patients dead ?

[Arthur Little]

................................................. 's true ... they were certainly despatched with "breakneck speed"!

As, of course, was the aforementioned Shipman's life ... eventually ... when he "found enough rope to hang himself"!

[Doc Alan]

The Shipman Enquiry was in three volumes comprising over 1,250 pages and over a hundred recommendations. It covered primary care in England only, but had implications for regulation of all doctors. It DID state that Shipman, through issuing death certificates stating " natural causes ", was able to evade the notice of his colleagues and coroners altogether. Not all the recommendations have been implemented, even a decade later.


It’s off topic to go into more detail about the Enquiry, save to say that NO-ONE, not least the GMC, and possibly Shipman himself ( at least when he successfully entered medical school ) could have suspected he would become a serial murderer, until it was too late .


That’s why it’s VITAL - if not foolproof - now to have revalidation of all doctors on a regular basis.

[les_taxi]

I'm happy for them to be hanged when 100% proven.

I would rather have them rot in cockroach infested cells for the rest of their miserable lives - suffering intolerable pain, worry and hardship, always under threat of execution - in fact I would want them to beg for it

I'm actually in a happy mood tonight so it could have been worse

[Michael Parnham]

I'm happy for them to be hanged when 100% proven.

I would rather have them rot in cockroach infested cells for the rest of their miserable lives - suffering intolerable pain, worry and hardship, always under threat of execution - in fact I would want them to beg for it

I'm actually in a happy mood tonight so it could have been worse

The problem with keeping them locked up for life is the cost and that comes out of our pockets, best get rid of the scum!

[les_taxi]

Yes I have agreed with that before but knowing they would be suffering under my proposals is more to my liking

[Jamesey]

Derek Bentley 1953. Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment, but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

Good post.

Capital punishment is wrong and has no place in a civilised society.

[grahamw48]

I agree with Michael.

[Arthur Little]

I agree with Michael.

.. I suppose ... ... on "balance" (no pun intended! ) so do I.