''Why do so many men report bad Filipina dating/marrying experiences?''

[gWaPito]

''The purpose of this Hub is to facilitate mature and intelligent debate on the marriage scam phenomenon, manifested through the lodgement of spouse visa applications by women from a poor third world country to wealthy countries such as the United States, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom, only for reasons of emigration and financial betterment and these motivations do not accord with the policies of such visa.


This type of ‘marriage’ is contrived to achieve specific social and personal goals. This problem can now be categorised as a global phenomenon by reference to the plethora of internet resources, copious volumes of personal stories from the victims of marriage/visa scams and the defensive migration laws and policies of many Western countries. This does not even include posts in languages other than English, not to mention victims who have not posted online.


In this context, the Philippines is a country which has gained an international reputation for leading the forefront on the proliferation of marriage/visa scams aimed at wealthy Western countries. Although the Philippines is not the only country which is an active participant in this phenomenon, it is a major contributor to the extent that it characterises and epitomises the Philippines from the perspective of the West. This article does not seek to explicitly or implicitly portray ‘all’ Filipinas as participants in this phenomenon; rather it examines the cultural traits which are common amongst a large number of Filipinas. This article does not seek to create or perpetuate negative stereotypes of Filipinas.


It must be stated that stereotypes may be limiting to people, but it must also be conceded that stereotypes are only created and perpetuated through the proliferation of common experiences, which then act as cultural signifiers. But ultimately, this article does not exist as a cultural attack on the Philippines and its people; rather, its purpose is to facilitate debate of a cultural and global phenomenon that is now too large to ignore and is causing defragmentation of the Philippines internally and the devastating flow-on effect to many Western countries.


The proliferation of internet cafes in the Philippines where young Filipinas flock to in droves to seek out communications with foreign men capable of sponsoring them for emigration and financially supporting them and their extended family members, is a clear manifestation of this phenomenon. Indeed, this hobby has transformed into a social custom in recent years, existing as a national past-time amongst young Filipinas, leading to foreign men being invited into financial remittances, or vacations in the Philippines culminating in physical relationships, with the ultimate goal for many being a fiancée visa out of the Philippines.

According to data obtained from the Commission on Filipinos Overseas by INQUIRER.net, 24,904 Filipinos married foreigners in 2006, up 18% from 2005’s 21,100, which was already an increase of 11.4% from 2004’s 18,944. This totals 64,948 in the 3 consecutive years. According to Minda Valencia, Director of Migrant Integration and Education Office, Filipinas account for 89.2% of these unions. The same set of data shows that Americans comprise the biggest foreign spouses of Filipinos at 126,638 or 40.24 % of the 309,745 foreigners who married Filipinos from 1989 to 2006. This was followed by Japanese at 94,792 or 30.60%. Australians were a far 3^rd at 25,073 or 8.09%. The rest of the nationality groupings are: Canadians at 12,401 or 4%; Germans at 11,307 or 3.65%; Taiwanese at 6,950 or 2.24%; British at 5,780 or 1.87%; South Koreans at 4,582 or 1.48%;and New Zealanders at 2,233 or 0.7%.

These statistics clearly challenge any refutals which attempt to undermine the prevalence of this phenomenon or deny the cultural and socio-economic reasons which drive Filipinas to procure relationships and marriage with foreign men.


In this context, there is a lack of international understanding of the dichotomy between what is known as ‘poverty stricken’ and ‘attaining a higher standard of living’. The very definition of being ‘poverty stricken’ would mean that someone is without food or shelter and lacks the basic necessities for physical survival. Cultural trends which are widely accepted and practiced in the Philippines point to the desire to attain a higher standard of living and procuring wealth as being the underlying motivation of most Filipinas who procure relationships with foreign men in order to emigrate, rather than pure poverty.

The Filipina intends to show loyalty to her parents and siblings by relying on someone else’s money so that they do not have to work and can attain the ‘good life’ through a form of financial and social dependency. These inner motivations are manifested through the perpetration of marriage and visa scams targeted at foreign men. Some Filipinas have even admitted on public forums that in ‘sacrificing’ themselves in marriage or prostitution to foreign men, they are hailed as ‘heroes’ by family and country.

This very same notion of personal and social sacrifice also leads many Filipinas to seek employment as ‘domestic servants’ in wealthy countries such as the United Arab Emirates, Hong Kong and Singapore. Rather than being motivated by a genuine desire to work as ‘domestic servants’, these Filipinas are often guided by an overwhelming desire to meet wealthy men and gain access to their homes to procure a personal and sexual advantage as well as having the ability to remit money home to the Philippines to financially support their relatives. In this way, this situation serves a dual purpose for many Filipinas.


Marriage and visa scamming has now become synonymous with the Philippines to the extent that it has become a cultural signifier. Filipinas tend to shun their own Filipino men as suitable marriage material, as their own men are generally financially ill-equipped to facilitate the social transitions that the Filipinas desire for herself and her extended family members. This is indicative of a subconscious form of racism and social and biological rejection of their own kind.


The Filipina ‘scams’ foreign men into marriage by projecting a hyperbolic, stylised and false image of herself in order to appeal to these men. This image is usually presented as one which is unconditionally loving and accepting, non-materialistic, simplistic, passive and most significantly, very sexually eager. From the perspective of the foreign men, these qualities may seem lacking in genuine Western women whom are unlikely to have any ulterior motives for entering into relationships with their own men and whom do not exhibit those characteristics. Thus these men find the (false) appeal of Filipinas very alluring as they present themselves as an ideal ‘alternative’. Most of these men at first are unaware of this false persona, which is why relationships of this kind appear at first to be harmonious, at least at the stage when the Filipina is yet to attain her goal(s).

Posts by Filipinas and purveyors of Filipina dating or mail-order bride websites often attack women of other races, particularly American women, as seen in this excerpt:
“Many Westerners, especially American men who get married to a Filipino girl swear that Filipina women make among the best wives in the world. On the other hand, the American women continue to be aggressive, demanding and are not comfortable to be in their natural role as a woman. So what has made the Filipina women popular among the Western men recently? In this site, we will explore the qualities that make the Filipina women so desirable.”

Source: paulaaquino23.hubpages.com/hub/datingmarryingfilipinagirl


Sources such as these are indicative of the common misconceptions perpetuated by Filipina about Western women in order to appeal to foreign men and are intended to disguise the underlying financial motivations of the Filipina and her culture. In a sense, the Filipina presents a hyperbolic image of herself and projects her true self onto the Western woman.

The cultural reasons which drive Filipinas to seek out foreign men for marriage have given rise to a concept known as ‘cultural prostitution’. In his article entitled ‘Mail-Order Brides: Gilded Prostitution and the Legal Response’ published in the Journal of Law Reform in 1994, Eddy Meng refers to Filipino women whom enter the mail-order industry in the hope of marrying abroad, and then sponsoring their family for immigration. The Philippine government’s legislation of the Mail-Order Bride Law (Republic Act No. 6955) on June 13, 1990 continues to be ignored by its people.


Indeed, ‘prostitution’ is the act of selling oneself (usually undesirably) to procure a benefit. Using this definition, the underlying motivations of gaining a visa and financial betterment by many Filipinas in entering into marriages with foreign men is to be regarded as a form of ‘cultural prostitution’. They would not have entered into such ‘marriages’ had those underlying motivations been absent. In this way, the Filipina is selling herself as a prostitute, albeit a cultural rather than an actual one. This is a concept that the Filipino people are unwilling to accept and they perpetuate such ingrained cultural traits as socially acceptable.


The marriage scam will inevitably lead to the spouse visa application scam. In this way, the micro issues of the Philippines and its people have found their way into the international context and becoming a macro international social and legal problem.
Studies and statistics have indicated that there is a high volume of spouse visa applications from the Philippines to many wealthy Western countries as opposed to visas for general skilled migration. Large numbers of Filipinas deliberately seek out foreign men to enter into relationships with, as a means of instigating social and economic mobility.


When assessed from this perspective, such spouse visa applications do not accord with the true legislative and policy intentions which underpin them. In situations where one party is genuine and the other is not, it would be correct to label the whole of that visa application to be lacking in authenticity and as amounting to migration fraud.

The underlying motivations of the Filipino people in emigrating is having such a global impact that many wealthy Western countries resort to defensive strategies to stem this global flux. At least in Australia, the government has acknowledged this trend and have implemented guidelines for assessments of visa applicants based upon inter alia, country of nationality, background, age and gender; these guidelines being to safeguard the integrity of the visa application process. The Australian government classifies young Filipinas as a ‘high risk’ category, so much so that such visa applicants are heavily scrutinised and are imposed a ‘no further stay’ condition when granted a temporary visa to Australia. These laws and policies are not ‘racist’ in that they do not aim specifically at Filipino people; rather, these measures arise out of the Australian government’s recognition of the cultural and economic motivations of the general Filipino people, which are backed up by research and statistical data.


When looked at from the macro perspective, it is clear that the internal problems of the Philippines and its people have made a global impact, to the extent that the Philippines and its people have become heavily dependent upon Western countries for sustenance, indicating an attempted replacement of sound internal economic policies. In 2009, about US$17.348 billion in remittances was sent to the Philippines by overseas Filipinos, higher than in previous years, according to GMA News. Indeed, this parasitical dependency has drained the financial and legal resources of many wealthy developed countries such as the United States, Canada and Australia. This problem is not one which is only caused by the Philippines, but it is necessary to concede that the Philippines is a major contributor to this phenomenon.


Countries such as the United States and Australia find themselves devoting huge financial resources to assess spouse visa applications which are not genuine, having to face the economic reality that the majority of newly acquired citizens do not retain their money internally but opt to remit money back home in order to sustain the Philippines; as a well as a host of other legal problems which emerge after the Filipina has settled in her host country. These include the fabrication of ‘domestic violence’ by the Filipina against her sponsor in order to obtain permanent residence to have her sponsor removed from his home (at least in the United Kingdom) and the tendency to fabricate false charges of child sexual abuse and/or domestic violence against her sponsor in order to obtain an advantage in property settlement matters following the dissolution of marriage.

( Pls note, only in the UK can a sponsor be removed from his home. My estranged wife let me keep my home because there was no money in it, otherwise she would of taken it. It may of been temporary but, the trauma of being removed from my home on the basis of lies would of been devastating.)

The personal impact upon many men around the world is evident through the plethora of internet resources which feature personal stories of men whom have recounted horrific experiences in marrying and sponsoring Filipinas.

Many of these men have lost all of their life’s savings, freedom, extended family and in some cases, their lives.

These personal stories cannot be regarded as isolated incidents because of the frequency of their occurrence and the common thread which runs through them: that Filipinas are primarily motivated to marry for emigration and financial reasons. Thus, what had appeared initially as a too-good-to-be-true compatibility eventually turned out to be a marital disaster.''

http://ulyssesulysses.hubpages.com/h...ng_experiences

I just want to state here and now, Im on no hate campaign. I have experienced some of the stuff ive bolded out. It has not put me off marrying another filipina. Im an active member of filipinocupid

The difference this time Im being ultra careful. Unlike being ultra stupid in the past.

I do hope at least someone will find this info interesting and worth bearing in mind. Yes, we have many sucessful partnerships on here but, over the years I have been a member here, many many more have come and gone, for whatever reason.

[stevewool]

A very interesting read, but its down to each other to find what you think is right for yourself, is she a gold digger, was she a man, is she on the game, but hold on there, you reap what you sow, they say,

SO just be careful when that person flutters there eyes at you and you become 16 again,

But remember this works both ways too, yes i shall love you for ever, just to get in their pants, yes come over and be prepared to look after me be my slave and dont expect to have a life other then me, you must have your eyes open these days and thats for both of you.

A marriage of convenience some say, maybe for both of you but remember you only get what you put in yourself and it must last more then your holiday fling too

Any marriage can fail, look at nearly all of us on here and was all our partners from the Philippines too

[gWaPito]

''These statistics clearly challenge any refutals which attempt to undermine the prevalence of this phenomenon or deny the cultural and socio-economic reasons which drive Filipinas to procure relationships and marriage with foreign men.''

These are not my opinions but, that of those who are darn sight more knowledgeable than me.
All I'm doing is covering bases..Like I said, I'm probably being too careful now. Up to the age of 45 years of age I was a financially successful man. I had respect

If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone

''Many of these men have lost all of their life’s savings, freedom, extended family and in some cases, their lives. ''

[gWaPito]

''These statistics clearly challenge any refutals which attempt to undermine the prevalence of this phenomenon or deny the cultural and socio-economic reasons which drive Filipinas to procure relationships and marriage with foreign men.''

These are not my opinions but, that of those who are darn sight more knowledgeable than me.
All I'm doing is covering bases..Like I said, I'm probably being too careful now. Up to the age of 45 years of age i was an financially successful man. I had respect

If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone

''Many of these men have lost all of their life’s savings, freedom, extended family and in some cases, their lives. ''

BTW
I have a solicitor appointment today..start of divorce proceedings...The living nightmare continues

This is the harsh reality. I know I'm not alone here. The stats prove it.

[grahamw48]

While there are 'rich' lonely guys who have one hand on their wallet and the other on their dick, and poor, but beautiful young ladies looking to 'better' themselves...an admirable human trait, the situation will persist.

Perfectly harmless, if all concerned use their common sense and don't tell lies.

[bigmac]

very interesting thread--and a lot of it hits home.

i have pre-empted the "if it goes belly-up" scenario---i have now sold my house--for various reasons--but mainly to free up the dosh for sponsorship. but i have no intention of buying another--for a few years. i will rent--then if it does go wrong--shes welcome to it.

on a purely physical level--youve seen her photos---there is no way i could attract a Brit woman of that age and appearance. most UK women in my age range are some other guys reject--and i can see why.

[gWaPito]

While there are 'rich' lonely guys who have one hand on their wallet and the other on their dick, and poor, but beautiful young ladies looking to 'better' themselves...an admirable human trait, the situation will persist.

Perfectly harmless, if all concerned use their common sense and don't tell lies.

I agree. .nothing wrong with rich lonely guys. We don't choose to be lonely ..much like filipinas wanting to better themselves, even if it does mean overlooking their own menfolk

[gWaPito]

very interesting thread--and a lot of it hits home.

i have pre-empted the "if it goes belly-up" scenario---i have now sold my house--for various reasons--but mainly to free up the dosh for sponsorship. but i have no intention of buying another--for a few years. i will rent--then if it does go wrong--shes welcome to it.

Good thinking Bigmac. Most of us are at an age where the dreaming should be left to the kids.
We have a responsibility to ourselves to be pragmatic. .especially when presented with life changing situations

[bigmac]

another thought--all these love-starved filipino men: i bet there are many rich widows in the UK who would be only too glad to meet them

[RickyR]

I think cultural differences, unrealistic expectations and the unwillingness to compromise are probably the main reasons for failure.
6+ years later and we still have cultural misunderstandings but they get less and less as time goes by.

[Michael Parnham]

another thought--all these love-starved filipino men: i bet there are many rich widows in the UK who would be only too glad to meet them

Something to think about!

[andy222]

Maybe the guys should do a bit more homework before they jump in.

[gWaPito]

Maybe the guys should do a bit more homework before they jump in.

I agree but, you can't put all the failures down to lack of homework.

''These include the fabrication of ‘domestic violence’ by the Filipina against her sponsor in order to obtain permanent residence to have her sponsor removed from his home (at least in the United Kingdom)''

I thought this was a rare when this happened to me. In fact it's not. My solicitor said today...'' Mark, we are getting people just like you coming to us every week''

I only come across this news item yesterday morning when somebody else mentioned that it had happened to them. This can happen to the best of us.

[gWaPito]

I think cultural differences, unrealistic expectations and the unwillingness to compromise are probably the main reasons for failure.
6+ years later and we still have cultural misunderstandings but they get less and less as time goes by.

Yes, that is apparent on both sides. I live close to a Brit/Fil who's been married nigh on 20 years. Still, they argue about money. He works a 37 hour week and spends his spare time deliverying leaflets to suppliment their income
She works fulltime, again holding down 2 jobs..apart from saving money for clothing hers gets sent to the Phils.

This remains a bugbear for them. He's working all the hours to pay off their mortgage while she remits her's back ''home''

This is one cultural difference that is hard to swallow. He said it doesn't get any easier.

She's a lovely woman..definitely no scam artist unlike what I've experienced. I would gladly shoulder his cross. So let's not confuse the two. Scammers and cultural differences are at opposing poles.

[gWaPito]

another thought--all these love-starved filipino men: i bet there are many rich widows in the UK who would be only too glad to meet them

There's also many a rich loved-starved Filipina, be it a bit long in the tooth. Just like the young filipina seeking out Brits. It works both ways You just gotta look that much harder

[Iani]

another thought--all these love-starved filipino men: i bet there are many rich widows in the UK who would be only too glad to meet them

Maybe

HOWEVER, this is another angle to a couple of other stories - one being the fake marriages scam where a man (It's always a man) from one of three possibly four certain countries (And it's nearly always those countries, mostly just one of them) pays an eastern european woman to marry him and thus secure legal residence in the UK.

It seems to be an elephant in the room thing where those in authority can't/won't take a step back and realise that there isn't just a question of the marriage being a scam, it's also extremely unusual for men from that background and culture to actually marry outside that culture and background.
Plus, most women don't find men from that region physically attractive.

This is nothing whatsoever to do with racism.......before some fat tattoo'd crop hair, roll-up smoking boiler suit wearing woman screams it, and everything to do with simple human attraction.

We're talking about mixed race relationships, well due to simple attraction, these tend to follow trends.

Fact is really - most people are attracted to their own race - it's a fact and there are simple reasons for that.

Mixed race though - trends - example, black and white - nearly always the male is the black and the woman the white. There's nothing sinister about this, women are often attracted to large (no.....I'm not talking about large in that department) men, and a lot of women are attracted to black men. Not over sure why, I'm not a woman.
Not as many white men are attracted to black women, various reasons. Plenty of men are, but they are the minority - it's a trend, nothing more.

Many on here have Pinay wives. Ever met their friends? Surely have or have been to local Filipino community events. Ever notice the ones in mixed race relationships - ever seen any where the partners are white women? It's very rare (Must happen but I haven't seen any, wheras I've seen literally hundreds of white men married to Filipinas).
White men can be attracted to east Asians, but white women generally aren't. One reason is most women don't like their men to be smaller than they are.
As a footnote, I know a trend bucker - a tall amazon of a woman married to a Vietnamese man.

Sooooooooo the point is, it's unlikely all these rich widows would be attracted to Filipinos. No they seem perfectly happy being 55 year olds going on holiday to Turkey and Tunisia, picking up a 20 year old waiter and being the only one of their friends, family........and the whole town to be surprised.........when as soon as he gets his "red book", he leaves her and goes to work in a local restaurant.

[Terpe]

Whereas I can understand where the author is coming from, when you look deeper it seems he may well be a bitter and twisted misanthropist who dislikes Filipina women in particular.
Probably deep down he's searching for someone (anyone) to actually like him.

What are those statistics supporting his viewpoint that can't be refuted? The article only states percentages for marriages. Nothing more.
Surely the better statistics would be related to those failed marriages and divorces........but curiously there are none presented....I wonder why?

Could it be that the only statistical data relating to divorce rates show that marriages to 'foreign women' are actually much lower than those with 'local' women from the same country as the husband?

We're all aware of the pitfalls.

I'm tempted to say that blokes like the author of the article would likely get taken to the cleaners less by filipinas than if they married local women.

Maybe such blokes need to step back and think things through a little more before jumping in, making mistakes and jumping to the conclusions they do.

Just another viewpoint.

[stevewool]

wow i wish i had read this before i stepped into what may turn out to be the biggest mistake in my whole life,
Hang about thats already happened twice , what a fool i have been and here is me doing it again,
I dont class me as different to many on here but what i am reading so far is wrong,
Is it down to luck who we end up with , maybe but its something that we all have to work at all the time,
Many of us are divorced and for what ever reason that caused it at the time you find out later it was the both of you that caused it,
I am 55 and for the last 5 years my life has been wonderful, i have the most wonderful women anyone could find , but before our planning we talked about what we both would like and so far its working,
We both work hard for our future and when we can we both decide what amounts can be sent abroad, we do have words about families but who dont, and its all sorted out no matter who is right or wrong,
Again my friends open your eyes before you bring someone here and remember they are trusting you just as much as you are trusting them, can it last forever who knows but its down to yourself to find out,

[stevewool]

Good thinking Bigmac. Most of us are at an age where the dreaming should be left to the kids.
We have a responsibility to ourselves to be pragmatic. .especially when presented with life changing situations

i am still dreaming but most of the dreams are happening, still a long way to go for some to appear, yes if it all got blown up it would be sad but as adults you try to be fair and sort it all out yourselves, which some people cannot do

[stevewool]

Maybe the guys should do a bit more homework before they jump in.

yes Andy lots of homework

[stevewool]

I agree but, you can't put all the failures down to lack of homework.

''These include the fabrication of ‘domestic violence’ by the Filipina against her sponsor in order to obtain permanent residence to have her sponsor removed from his home (at least in the United Kingdom)''

I thought this was a rare when this happened to me. In fact it's not. My solicitor said today...'' Mark, we are getting people just like you coming to us every week''

I only come across this news item yesterday morning when somebody else mentioned that it had happened to them. This can happen to the best of us.

the women could be from any where in the world to take everything you have

[stevewool]

Sorry to be sounding harsh on this thread,
After 2 british white women divorces i know where i went wrong, i hope my ex wives do too, you learn from your mistakes if there was any and deep down there was lots from both of you and then you move on hopping never to repeat what you thought you did wrong,
In my case its working and i am saying sorry and i understand quicker then i have ever done,

[Jamesey]

Interesting read.

There are obviously lots of men and women out there, all with different motivations.

But relationships with Filipinas don't always involve Visas. My wife had already been in the UK for 5 years, and had indefinite leave to remain, when I met her. That made things very easy! Also, she's about the same age as me and comes from a reasonably well-off family, so she doesn't need to send money back. Overall we're a great match!

So I suppose that someone embarking on any serious relationship needs to do plenty of research!

[grahamw48]

That's great, but some of us desperate old blokes DO have to look further afield.

[gWaPito]

Interesting read.

There are obviously lots of men and women out there, all with different motivations.

But relationships with Filipinas don't always involve Visas. My wife had already been in the UK for 5 years, and had indefinite leave to remain, when I met her. That made things very easy! Also, she's about the same age as me and comes from a reasonably well-off family, so she doesn't need to send money back. Overall we're a great match!

So I suppose that someone embarking on any serious relationship needs to do plenty of research!

I'm taking the same course as you. .carbon copy. .Ded gave the idea a while back It's not impossible. Like you said. .research, I'd suggest research research and loads more of it

At least you know you won't be scammed. If the marriage fails then it down to both parties. .as Steve suggested

[Steve.r]

I find the thread a bit hypocritical to be honest.

[gWaPito]

I find the thread a bit hypocritical to be honest.

Why is that??
It's giving some balance..It's not all moonlight and roses..to be honest

I admit, it's possibly a tad unpalatable for some who don't really want to read this, especially on a site advocating Phil/Brit relationships...But I do think it's wise to make people aware of the possible pitfalls.

This is just a single thread out of many thousands on here..It's not misery being spread all over the forum.

[gWaPito]

Whereas I can understand where the author is coming from, when you look deeper it seems he may well be a bitter and twisted misanthropist who dislikes Filipina women in particular.
Probably deep down he's searching for someone (anyone) to actually like him.

What are those statistics supporting his viewpoint that can't be refuted? The article only states percentages for marriages. Nothing more.
Surely the better statistics would be related to those failed marriages and divorces........but curiously there are none presented....I wonder why?

Could it be that the only statistical data relating to divorce rates show that marriages to 'foreign women' are actually much lower than those with 'local' women from the same country as the husband?

We're all aware of the pitfalls.

I'm tempted to say that blokes like the author of the article would likely get taken to the cleaners less by filipinas than if they married local women.

Maybe such blokes need to step back and think things through a little more before jumping in, making mistakes and jumping to the conclusions they do.


Just another viewpoint.

I married a 'local woman', we were together for 27 years. It didnt stop it happening to me not only once but twice.

I do agree on your last sentence

[cheekee]

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

I met so many scammers online on dating sites before I met Sheina.

They were so obvious. They would all do exactly the same thing. It would start great and then you would get the sob story why they needed money.

I used to think to myself that they must have tried it many times to become so apathetic in their approach.

It did make me very cautious but its always a wake up call to know that some people get caught a long time down the road. I am truly sorry to those who this happens to.

[gWaPito]

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

I met so many scammers online on dating sites before I met Sheina.

They were so obvious. They would all do exactly the same thing. It would start great and then you would get the sob story why they needed money.

I used to think to myself that they must have tried it many times to become so apathetic in their approach.

It did make me very cautious but its always a wake up call to know that some people get caught a long time down the road. I am truly sorry to those who this happens to.

Cheers Cheekee for your honesty.
I've sent you a rep