China Increases Typhoon Aid to Philippines

[grahamw48]

Joe, I will NOT be giving you any meaningless figures ...sorry.

It's a bone I won't be fighting over.

[joebloggs]

Poverty is a 'condition' a 'state of being'. Figures are meaningless, as they are so variable and circumstances-dependent.

You've either got sufficient for your basic needs (not bloody Sky TV, fags and booze !) or not.

There is a system set up in this country to help prevent people from being poor, to the extent they are suffering.

Of course you can take a horse to water...

you work graham, you must have a minimum figure you need to survive without cigs, beer, sky etc, a figure you need, at the end of the month you would have £0 left or your were getting in debt you've never thought about it ?

[grahamw48]

I know the figure, but that is my personal business.

Fortunately I've also CHOSEN not to be in debt.

[joebloggs]

Joe, I will NOT be giving you any meaningless figures ...sorry.

It's a bone I won't be fighting over.

there are not meaningless figures , I'm asking you for a minimum monthly figure you regard as being in poverty ..

[grahamw48]

Joe, when I came back from the Philippines in 2003 and found that my wife had found a new man during my absence, I was standing at 'her' front door, homeless, jobless, with a flight bag and £180 to my name...having left 99% my stuff in the Philippines....never to be seen again.

Does that count as being in 'poverty' ?

Booking myself into the YMCA hostel . Poverty ?

Though in shock and despair at losing my family and my home, the next day I went looking for work. I first laid a floor in a company's office, which earned me fifty quid.

I was then offered a job door-knocking for wall insulation and hopefully selling it. Commission-only.

I had no transport, and only construction boots to put on my feet, so I worked locally. My sister gave me a warmer jacket.

That is not easy work, and a lot would turn their noses up at it, but it enabled me to earn some money and start saving for a car and better accommodation so that I didn't have to walk the 3 miles each way to see my son, after having walked all day long too (at the age of 52). Spending time with my son was what kept me going, even though the surroundings in a hostel weren't the best.

I kept working, pounding the streets in all weathers, gradually building up some funds until I could buy an old car and some outings with my boy.

When the duty-free cigs ran out I went to the smoking clinic and got some patches, which enabled me to stop smoking for the next 3 years.

And so it went on, until little by little, working hard every day, including Saturdays, I was able to find a nice little place to rent and some reasonable transport. No work...no money. Always commission-only. No benefits.

So yes, I know what poverty is, and hardship, and making things happen through your own efforts.

[SimonH]

That sounds to me like a man who was kicked in the but instead of whinging and crying, he dusted himself down, stood up straight and got on with it. A man that has a bigger pair of than 99% of the scrounging unwashed out there
Well done Graham

[stevewool]

poverty, well what is it, growing up with another 12 sisters and brothers, did i ever go without, well compared to others yes and compared to some not at all, did i have pocket money, no, did we eat three meals a day no, did we go without anything no, it was what we were brought up with, you all can go on about figures and this and that, and yes there are some unfortunate children in this country, but its down to the parents to help them get out of the poverty they find themselves in.

Today i am very fortunate to have what i want when i want, but i dont choose that, i make sure that i wont go without in the future, the problem i see is rather then put food on the table people would rather have the latest game or clothes, just my thoughts no offence meant to others who are struggling to live

[joebloggs]

So yes, I know what poverty is, and hardship, and making things happen through your own efforts.

so if you know what poverty is, you can put a rough figure on what someone would need to survive ?

i take it then having £0 is poverty to you ?

i'm not trying to trick anyone, it seems some people on here are saying there is no poverty in the UK, but when i ask for a rough figure of what you would call poverty no one can answer

[joebloggs]

poverty, well what is it, growing up with another 12 sisters and brothers, did i ever go without, well compared to others yes and compared to some not at all, did i have pocket money, no, did we eat three meals a day no, did we go without anything no, it waas what we was brought up with, you all can go on about figures and this and that, and yes there are some unfortunate children in this country, but its down to the parents to help them get out of the poverty they find themselves,
Today i am very fortunate to have what i want when i want, but i dont chose that, i make sure that i wont go without in the future, the problem i see is rather then put food on the table people would rather have the latest game or cloths, just my thoughts no offence ment to others who are struggling to live

so your parents had £0 money steve ? no benefits or they didn't work ? , i dont know about expenses in the past, but if we talk about today in terms of money

say your working, after tax would you say £800 for a single person is poverty ?

[stevewool]

joe i have no figure for what you are looking for, but i know myself whatever figure i had to live on it would have to do, yes there may be lots of going without but you will survive you just have to, remember poverty to one is not having a hundred quid in your pocket, yet to others its have nothing in your pocket, so tell us what your figure is or what you would feel comfortable with

[stevewool]

so your parents had £0 money steve ? no benefits or they didn't work ? , i dont know about expenses in the past, but if we talk about today in terms of money

say your working, after tax would you say £800 for a single person is poverty ?

being the youngest in the household Joe, i did not know what was coming into the house, dad was working, free school meals and a new school uniform is all i can remember, like i have said you cut your cloth according to how you live

[joebloggs]

joe i have no figure for what you are looking for, but i know myself what ever figure i had to live on it would have to do, yes there may be lots of going without but you will survive you just have to, remember poverty to one s not having a hundred quid in your pocket, yet to others its to have nothing in your pocket, so tell us what your figure is or what you would feel comfortable with

being the youngest in the household Joe, i did not know what was coming into the house' dad was working, free school meals and a new school uniform is all i can remember, like i have said you cut your cloth according to how you live

well my mom struggled with 3 kids when she became a widow anyway ..

everyone has to pay certain bills, whether your on benefits or not, if you have £0 left at the end of the month or are getting in debt then that's no way to live, just surviving is that poverty ? isn't that what many in the phils do, just survive ?

roughly rent for a 1 bedroom flat near me i would say minimum of £400 a month
electric\gas £100 a month, water £30, poll tax £100 , food £7 a day = £200 a month. I'll not include luxuries like a TV license or internet, a car, insurance, clothes etc,

£830 a month your struggling

[grahamw48]

so if you know what poverty is, you can put a rough figure on what someone would need to survive ?

i take it then having £0 is poverty to you ?

i'm not trying to trick anyone, it seems some people on here are saying there is no poverty in the UK, but when i ask for a rough figure of what you would call poverty no one can answer

Google it Joe.

How the hell would I know what other people need ?

[joebloggs]

Google it Joe.

How the hell would I know what other people need ?

if you don't know what other people need how can you say there is no poverty in the UK ?

GWaPito said many survive on £1.70 a day in the Phils, i just said that a single person would need to have at least £830 a month to survive unless we want people to start living in cardboard boxes on the street and I'm sure none of us want that, then yes you can survive on a lot less.

[stevewool]

roughly rent for a 1 bedroom flat near me i would say minimum of £400 a month
electric\gas £100 a month, water £30, poll tax £100 , food £7 a day = £200 a month. I'll not include luxuries like a TV license or internet, a car, insurance, clothes etc,

£830 a month your struggling

Indeed Joe, so something has to give, and you then turn the heating off, and maybe that may help, i must say most on this forum has some time in their life struggled to pay their way whether its a few months or years , but you still get by one way or another,

In fact i can remember the jumble sale too when we was kids, thats where we got a new toy and maybe a crap jumper that you had to grow into and that took a year, bloody baggy things and why did they always itch too

[joebloggs]

that £830 doesn't include clothes, savings to replace worn out stuff, cooker, fridge etc, getting to work - transport costs, cheapest i know of is a monthly bus pass thats near £70 a month.

[grahamw48]

if you don't know what other people need how can you say there is no poverty in the UK ?

GawPito said many survive on £1.70 a day in the Phils, i just said that a single person would need to have at least £830 a month to survive unless we want people to start living in cardboard boxes on the street and I'm sure none of us want that, then yes you can survive on a lot less.

Please show me where I said that Joe.

I didn't plan to get into a silly tit for tat argument over this Joe, because I've better things to do with my time, and all the answers are there for you on the internet as you well know.

The government have set what they and their experienced advisors have deemed to be the minimum income required by either individuals or families in this country.

I check people's benefit documents, income, bills etc every day of the week..in their own homes, as well as chat to them about their circumstances (and reasons for being in 'need'). I also visit working people from all backgrounds every day of the week, and have been doing so since 1977. Before that I worked at the Unemployment Benefit Office.

Friend, I know what I'm talking about, and that's the end of the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant. It's just the truth.

You can rake around looking for an argument for as long as you like. It isn't happening this afternoon. Google is your friend.

[fred]

if you don't know what other people need how can you say there is no poverty in the UK ?

GWaPito said many survive on £1.70 a day in the Phils, i just said that a single person would need to have at least £830 a month to survive unless we want people to start living in cardboard boxes on the street and I'm sure none of us want that, then yes you can survive on a lot less.

I wish I could once again give you, Joe and Graham a rep but I can't as system wont let me.. I agree with you both at the same time!!
I've seen the locals going through a real tough time this week.. It's hard to explain really, but after watching how the "poor" here react to adversity here actually never fails to amaze me!!

They smile as if everything is almost normal..

Completely different culture and a completely different way at how life is assessed in different parts of the world..
I know this may sound crazy but I've been poor on both parts of the earth..For some strange reason if it ever happened again to me,I woulds choose to be here.. I don't think I would have the guts to be "poor" in England again.

Just sayin..
Fred.

[joebloggs]

Please show me where I said that Joe.

every time I've posted about poverty in the UK you've always posted that their parents find money for cigs, PlayStations and beer

so now your telling me there is poverty in the uk ?

[gWaPito]

it seems some people on here are saying there is no poverty in the UK

Not compared to the likes of The Philippines and China, there isn't.....This is all I was saying Joe

[gWaPito]

I don't think I would have the guts to be "poor" in England again.

Just sayin..
Fred.

Same goes for me. .It perhaps makes me what I am.

I know when I first met Jane I extended my vacations....I could ill afford it but did it anyway. ...you could say we were living like the natives.

I couldn't begin to imagine doing that again here in UK, not at my age. You never forget hard times.

[joebloggs]

Not compared to the likes of The Philippines and China, their isn't.....This is all I was saying Joe

and why is that then gWaPito ?

[Arthur Little]

Then we have the various additional freebies for those on most benefits or on OAP ...ie free dental treatment, glasses, prescriptions etc.

Yes ... OAPs receive free prescriptions, Graham. But neither dental treatment NOR glasses are free to the over 65s here, unfortunately.

How anyone can compare our mollycoddled existence to REAL poverty in countries like the Philippines is just beyond me.

...................... 's true, !

[joebloggs]

Arthur are you mollycoddled that you can afford to heat your home, if you can do you think there are pensioners out there who can't maybe you've got a private pension to help, there must be many pensioners out there that don't and wish they were mollycodded

[Arthur Little]

Arthur are you mollycoddled that you can afford to heat your home, if you can do you think there are pensioners out there who can't maybe you've got a private pension to help, there must be many pensioners out there that don't and wish they were mollycodded

... as I've stated on here several times, I retired early from full time work with a modest, index~linked pension which - *when I turned sixty - was barely enough to support myself. And, from *then on, until I reached the age of sixty-five, it had to be topped-up with **Pension Credit ... **which was later discontinued when I became an OAP in September 2009 - six months after Myrna arrived in the UK as my wife. Being a State Pensioner now, I'm entitled to an annual Winter Fuel Payment of £200. But much as this isn't to be "sniffed at", it barely "scrapes the bottom of the barrel" when it comes to coping with the heating bills - thanks to the greed of the Energy Companies.

So no, I wouldn't say I'm mollycoddled. But I recognise I'm DEFINITELY luckier than lots of folk ... ... mainly because I don't have the very hefty upkeep of a car to worry about.

[joebloggs]

So no, I wouldn't say I'm mollycoddled. But I recognise I'm DEFINITELY luckier than lots of folk ...

i can't argue with that Arthur

[gWaPito]

so if you know what poverty is, you can put a rough figure on what someone would need to survive ?

i take it then having £0 is poverty to you ?

i'm not trying to trick anyone, it seems some people on here are saying there is no poverty in the UK, but when i ask for a rough figure of what you would call poverty no one can answer

In my experience, once you've gone through something like Graham has, the thought of poverty never leaves you. No matter what I earn, it's never enough....I used to dread looking at bank statements and whatnot, I still do even thou I'm doing good..those broke years of the late 70s early 80s must of scared me .........I know I'm not the only one like this.

[gWaPito]

and why is that then gWaPito ?

Possibly something to do with the welfare state ....there's none of that in those third world countries

[London_Manila]

I would imagine anyone on the minimum wage and living in London would be in poverty or very close to it

Renting accommodation here is sky high now and i don't know how most can afford it

surviving not living diba

[gWaPito]

That sounds to me like a man who was kicked in the but instead of whinging and crying, he dusted himself down, stood up straight and got on with it. A man that has a bigger pair of than 99% of the scrounging unwashed out there
Well done Graham

Absolutely, Simon....I've only just read that post of Graham's bugger