What a pair of stupid girls

[gWaPito]

.

[London_Manila]

Bigmarco you seem have to missed my post where I said,

If it was that cut and dried everyone charged with an offence would be found guilty. I don’t have that sort of confidence in the abilities of all police officers !

I am the one (maybe the only one) who is defending the right of people that they should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If some here had their way, all of those who you quote would have been convicted (even without the juries who decided to find them guilty) without any right to appeal.

I think most of us on here are well aware of the facts of this case and we are free to draw our own conclusions

A suitcase full of cocaine does not normally baffle many people

Even the keystone cops could sort this one out !

[johncar54]

I have deleted my posts because of insults

[joebloggs]

concerning Le Vell, unless I'm wrong it came down to what he and the girl said happened, i don't think there was any actual Physical evidence. so it came down to the jury who to believe, thou the CPs thought there was enough evidence to bring the case to court.

these girls were caught with drugs, and if i remember correctly they knew they were carrying drugs.

[gWaPito]

Who needs Corrie when we got a cast like this

[johncar54]

Here we go again, I expect I will need to delete this post too, but anyway …..

Joe ........ if I remember correctly they knew they were carrying drugs.

That would not mean in UK law that they were guilty. (I have no expertise in Peruvian law but suspect it would be more or less similar). To establish guilt it would be necessary to prove other ingredients of the law which they had contravened. Whether the facts (including all the necessary ingredients required to prove a case) amount to a breach of the law is a matter for legally trained people to argue in front of a judge.


As an extreme example. A police officer confiscates drugs. He then has them in his possession, he of course knows he has them, but he is clearly not guilty of any offence, i.e. other ingredients need to be present too. However, the same officer, with the same drugs, in different circumstances, might be guilty of an offence.

[London_Manila]

away with the fairies / cloud cuckoo land

I am all for defending the innocent but dont you think you are stretching it a bit far on this one

Leaving the country with a suitcase full of cocaine probably contravened some law

[joebloggs]

Peru drug arrests: British woman Melissa Reid 'to plead guilty'

Reid, who was arrested last month with Michaella McCollum Connolly, hopes plea will lead to shorter jail term, reports say

read more here .. http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...d-plead-guilty

[grahamw48]

They are a pair of silly young girls who have a lot to learn.

I hope they do get shorter sentences, but more importantly that the people who got them into this are caught and severely punished.

[bigmarco]

Fortunately common sense now seems to have kicked in.

[London_Manila]

Plea bargaining was all they had left and it was only a matter of time before they embarked on this route

[joebloggs]

another one caught a few days ago

[johncar54]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.

[stevewool]

anyone carrying drugs should know what to expect, if it was me carrying these and they told me they would kill my family i would make myself known to the police or who ever else was at that airport telling them what has happened, whats the saying do the crime do the time, just my thoughts

[johncar54]

if it was me carrying these and they told me they would kill my family i would make myself known to the police

Steve, I would too, but that's a subjective judgement.

Subjective information or writing is based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. It is often considered ill-suited for scenarios like news reporting or decision making in business or politics.

Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable.

[Dedworth]

As I said before shame it wasn't Malaysia or Singapore - untold taxpayers money will be wasted on consular visits and advice for this pair of chancers

[SimonH]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effected forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.

Subjective information or writing is based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. It is often considered ill-suited for scenarios like news reporting or decision making in business or politics.

Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable.

So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective

[bigmarco]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.

I don't see it as between a rock and a hard place John. I view it more as the "Smoking Gun". The girls have obviously had time to reflect and had their options laid out in black and white by the lawyers. Common sense is kicking in.

As for Christopher Jeffries he was treated appallingly by the press at the time of his wrongful arrest by the police. I believe some newspapers were convicted of contempt of court over this and Christopher Jeffries has himself received pay outs estimated and somewhere between £500,000 and £1million from 8 newspapers which has enabled him to retire early and very comfortably.
One of the main issues in this case for me is perhaps his name should have remained secret until such time as any charges were forthcoming.

[grahamw48]

I agree (no naming). On the radio this morning the chief of police stated that it might prevent other victims from coming forward if suspects weren't named.

Rubbish.

When the case goes to court the REAL person actually CHARGED will of course be named, so plenty of opportunity then for other interested parties to make themselves known.

[johncar54]

Bigmarco:- ................................ wrongful arrest by the police.

I have searched on the internet. I cannot find any reference to the police paying compensation. Newspapers (who like a lot of other people) said he was guilty, have paid compensation for their libels.

Quote - http://charonqc.wordpress.com/2012/1...ully-arrested/

…………………………. I expect that the police have denied liability and argued that the arresting officer had a reasonable suspicion to justify the arrest ‘to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question’ (s.24(5)(e) Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984),


SimonH So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective

It's probably objective
"Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable."

Facts they were arrested, they did claim duress, and from what we know the standard of Justice exercised in some countries is somewhat less than most Brits would expect. But, I am prepared that some may say it’s Subjective too.

[gWaPito]

I wonder what makes a few folks here think British justice is so great

In my limited experience on the receiving end of British injustice I can tell you it stinks.

Nothing to do with the police. .They are servants of the Crown up holding the law. .basically they are surfs

It's the law makers who have much to answer for.

[SimonH]

Please show me just one link that says they were FORCED into a guilty plea to back up your objective point of view.

[johncar54]

Simon this seems to developing into much more than the post would appear to intend,
but:- As I said
". If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

So 'forced' by the circumstances. I have no doubt you will understand what I mean by that.

Regards John

[bigmarco]

Bigmarco:- ................................ wrongful arrest by the police.

I have searched on the internet. I cannot find any reference to the police paying compensation. Newspapers (who like a lot of other people) said he was guilty, have paid compensation for their libels.

Quote - http://charonqc.wordpress.com/2012/1...ully-arrested/

…………………………. I expect that the police have denied liability and argued that the arresting officer had a reasonable suspicion to justify the arrest ‘to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question’ (s.24(5)(e) Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984),


SimonH So, is your comment about the fact that they are being forced into pleading guilty subjective or objective

It's probably objective
"Objective information or analysis is fact-based, measurable and observable."

Facts they were arrested, they did claim duress, and from what we know the standard of Justice exercised in some countries is somewhat less than most Brits would expect. But, I am prepared that some may say it’s Subjective too.

Pardon me John but I thought when the Police arrested somebody on suspicion of murder who they subsequently set free, then the term wrongful arrest is appropriate.
As regards damages I don't believe the Police actually libelled him so that's why the media settled their claims quickly.
However the letter from the Chief Constable is effectively an admission of some wrong doing and the sum of money they paid him for damage to his property has satisfied him.

[Arthur Little]

If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice

That's true ... it's NOT justice. ... so why IS it that, in the event of conviction, an accused person's likely to receive a lighter sentence if he/she pled guilty? What's "fair" about that?

... doesn't make sense; ... ... surely the length of sentence ought to be determined in accordance with the magnitude of the offence.

[johncar54]

Pardon me John but I thought when the Police arrested somebody on suspicion of murder who they subsequently set free, then the term wrongful arrest is appropriate.
As regards damages I don't believe the Police actually libelled him so that's why the media settled their claims quickly.
However the letter from the Chief Constable is effectively an admission of some wrong doing and the sum of money they paid him for damage to his property has satisfied him.

As quoted from the internet the police have lawful power to arrest if they suspect, with reasonable cause etc. That happens all the time. That is not wrongful.

If the police cause any damage to property during a search, they will normally pay for the repairs (at least in the London Met Police Area that's what always happened).

The letter appears to have said, "............Police have insisted they were right to arrest the landlord of the murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates over her death but have apologised for not making it clear sooner that he was innocent."

[Arthur Little]

That's true ... it's NOT justice. ... so why IS it that, in the event of conviction, an accused person's likely to receive a lighter sentence if he/she pled guilty? What's "fair" about that?

... doesn't make sense; ... ... surely the length of sentence ought to be determined in accordance with the magnitude of the offence.

By the same token ... if they're as as they claim, then, of course, there should be no need for these two lassies to plead guilty.

[Ako Si Jamie]

another one caught a few days ago

A 'heavily pregnant' foreigner flying out of Colombia must have aroused suspicion straight away.

[London_Manila]

They are of course between a rock and a hard place. If they pursue their claim of not being guilty and get convicted they will get a substantially longer sentence than if they plead guilty.

That is not Justice; but faced with a similar situation I guess most of us would take the plea route no matter how innocent we were, especially in a country where we might suspect we would not get a fair trial.

Unfortunately some will use the fact that they were in effect forced to plead guilty, to justify their condemnation of the women.


As for jumping to conclusions about a person’s guilt on the ‘evidence’ of newspaper stores;

I see Christopher Jefferies, whom I have no doubt many condemned as obviously guilty at the time, has just got an apology .

Just shows how in hindsight the facts can be so different for instant gut feelings, which many freely express. Unfortunately, it often takes the passage of time to establish fact from fiction (and prejudice).

Guardian

Christopher Jefferies hails 'public vindication' after police express regret for distress caused by arrest as suspect in case

Christopher Jefferies won damages from eight newspapers after his arrest following Joanna Yeates's murder in December 2010.

The landlord of murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates has received a letter from police expressing "regret" for the first time at the way he was treated after being arrested over her killing.

Christopher Jefferies had not checked in a suitcase full of cocaine
Blame the British gutter press for his treatment which was disgusting

How could these girls plead not guilty anyway and on what grounds ?

[gWaPito]

As quoted from the internet the police have lawful power to arrest if they suspect, with reasonable cause etc. That happens all the time. That is not wrongful.

If the police cause any damage to property during a search, they will normally pay for the repairs (at least in the London Met Police Area that's what always happened).

The letter appears to have said, "............Police have insisted they were right to arrest the landlord of the murdered landscape architect Joanna Yeates over her death but have apologised for not making it clear sooner that he was innocent."

THe filth make it up as they go along!!!!