Ex-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher dies

[imagine]

So then let's say they were running away,what would you say then if they had survived and at some point killed British personnel?
This should be good

there was no reason for them to, they were in retreat, it was obvious the conflict was over,
the point is the west insist there are rules of war, anything out of those rules is classed as a war crime, but its ok maggie could do whatever she wanted

[Dedworth]

1930 ! you mean 1980s !!
i've already posted the reason , you replied , remember my post on Bob Carr and is it the same reason now , and a double whammy hit the poor at the same time with a minimum income requirement

Correct me if I'm wrong I must be missing something here Joe - I stated that recent tightening of immigration rules was due to Labours open door policy 1997-2010 - you harked back to some irrelevant primary purpose thingy in the 1980's. I sarcastically mentioned the 1930's, I could just as easily said the 40's or 50's.It's just like Blair apologising for slavery, bleating on about school milk etc absolutely nothing to do with today's situation

[les_taxi]

there was no reason for them to, they were in retreat, it was obvious the conflict was over,
the point is the west insist there are rules of war, anything out of those rules is classed as a war crime, but its ok maggie could do whatever she wanted

Ooops now your looking a bit out of depth on this,you do realize that the Belgrano was sank at the beggining of the war,so how could the conflict be over
Suggest you do a bit of research,you do realise that we lost over 200 men and some falkland islanders were killed-did they ask to be?
Blimey i hope we never have a conventional war you would be out serving the enemy Canapes!
Also technically we were not offically at war!

[Dedworth]

there was no reason for them to, they were in retreat, it was obvious the conflict was over,

conflict was over ??

2 May Belgrano sunk
4 May HMS Sheffield hit by Exocet
21 May British forces land on Falklands
27 May 2 Para take Goose Green
8 June Sir Galahad bombed
11,12 13 June British forces take Mount Longdon, Two Sisters, Mount Harriet, Mount Tumbledown and Wireless Ridge
14 June Argies surrender

[les_taxi]

conflict was over ??

2 May Belgrano sunk
4 May HMS Sheffield hit by Exocet
21 May British forces land on Falklands
27 May 2 Para take Goose Green
8 June Sir Galahad bombed
11,12 13 June British forces take Mount Longdon, Two Sisters, Mount Harriet, Mount Tumbledown and Wireless Ridge
14 June Argies surrender

Cheers Dedworth facts always help an arguament
I just googled this and it seems a fair statement

Regardless of controversies over the sinking, it had a crucial strategic effect: the elimination of the Argentine naval threat. After her loss, the entire Argentine fleet, with the exception of the conventional submarine ARA San Luis,[54] returned to port and did not leave again for the duration of hostilities. The two escorting destroyers and the battle group centred on the aircraft carrier ARA Veinticinco de Mayo both withdrew from the area, ending the direct threat to the British fleet that their pincer movement had represented.

That says it all for me

[joebloggs]

the last Tory gov, that's Thatcher brought in a 'primary purpose rule' , oh was there slavery in the 1980's. it seems only 30yrs ago

"the primary purpose rule", which was imposed by the Conservatives in 1993. It required that someone wishing to follow his or her spouse into Britain to prove that "the marriage was not entered into primarily to obtain admission to the UK". Proving a negative, as the rule obliged the candidate to do, was extremely difficult, and large numbers of spouses were refused entry into Britain as a result.

Labour abolished that rule soon after the election in 1997.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ain-today.html

what is todays situation ? do you think a British citizen or someone who is a legal resident in the UK should have the legal right to bring their spouse and family to the UK ?

[imagine]

Ooops now your looking a bit out of depth on this,you do realize that the Belgrano was sank at the beggining of the war,so how could the conflict be over
Suggest you do a bit of research,you do realise that we lost over 200 men and some falkland islanders were killed-did they ask to be?
Blimey i hope we never have a conventional war you would be out serving the enemy Canapes!
Also technically we were not offically at war!

i know the dates , they had no chance, argentinian service men were hardly trained for war, seems it was over before it started, mmm technically we were not offically at war mmm so it couldnt be a war crime then after all, must have been mass murder

[Dedworth]

the last Tory gov, that's Thatcher brought in a 'primary purpose rule' , oh was there slavery in the 1980's. it seems only 30yrs ago

"the primary purpose rule", which was imposed by the Conservatives in 1993. It required that someone wishing to follow his or her spouse into Britain to prove that "the marriage was not entered into primarily to obtain admission to the UK". Proving a negative, as the rule obliged the candidate to do, was extremely difficult, and large numbers of spouses were refused entry into Britain as a result.

Labour abolished that rule soon after the election in 1997.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ain-today.html

what is todays situation ? do you think a British citizen or someone who is a legal resident in the UK should have the legal right to bring their spouse and family to the UK ?

So 1993 not Mrs Thatcher ..........brought in by Majors Govt that was only on the books for 4 years. I wonder how many marriages of convenience, cousins from the sub continent etc, criminals, terrorists, sick etc came in during the period 1997-2010

[stevewool]

well there is a few on here who are not fans of hers

do you remember the news at 10, at the end Trev Mcdonald would say how many 1000s of jobs were lost that day ?

record levels of unemployment, culture of greed, no compassion at all, stole milk from kids, sold off everything that was British

I've told you why i dont like her, tell me the reasons you do Steve

have you ever been a member of a Union ? i haven't no unions where i've worked, but some employers treat you like sometimes, i've had to in the past taken 2 different employers to tribunals for my basic rights, if i was in a union they wouldn't have been able to do what they did.

Well there is no reason really it just gets my goat when the names start calling. Now being a member of a union never have been, I have been lucky in work just two jobs inm my life . Yes sometimes my boss gets on his high horse and shouts and calls everyone names but call me any name you want if he's willing to pay me very well. I have been imploded just the once and that was so bad and in the 6 months I was out of work it took years to get back to being ok. Now life is good I could retire now if I had too and be happy but I won't. No governments have helped me no unions have help me too its all down to myself just like life if yourself wants something go and get it don't wait for any handouts from any government or unions

[Dedworth]

i know the dates , they had no chance, argentinian service men were hardly trained for war, seems it was over before it started, mmm technically we were not offically at war mmm so it couldnt be a war crime then after all, must have been mass murder

Are you saying it acceptable for Argentina and its hardly trained but fully armed servicemen to invade another nations territory but another matter when they had to face the consequences ? Surely to avoid bloodshed the sensible way would have been for them to pack up and go home

[imagine]

Are you saying it acceptable for Argentina and its hardly trained but fully armed servicemen to invade another nations territory but another matter when they had to face the consequences ? Surely to avoid bloodshed the sensible way would have been for them to pack up and go home

who's territory is it realy, im sure its not theirs or ours

[stevewool]

Wow you lot know so much and we all have a opinion which is good , it's god to read all this history. Again I am not bill on politics but I am sure on this there is not one good party or leader out there just yet

[Dedworth]

who's territory is it realy, im sure its not theirs or ours

Ours no question whatsoever

[imagine]

Ours no question whatsoever

i think you might find it isnt or i think i should have said its debatable could be french,
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...-british/10144

[imagine]

she stabbed them in the back just the same as she stabbed her own working class at home,
who the island belongs to is nothing to do with her action to change rules just to sink a ship in retreat
now thats fact

[les_taxi]

i think you might find it isnt or i think i should have said its debatable could be french,
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...-british/10144

Well I think you will find Argentina doesn't belong to the Argies anyway
Sorry for being loyal to the Crown and our servicemen but you lost your credibility in this discussion when you said the belgrano was sank at the end of the war-pure rubbish.
Lets hope we never have a war as I don't think you will be on my side

[Terpe]

I'm not a politically minded person. I'd prefer to see talented folks running the country and government departments regardless of political doctrine.

Just feel like contributing my own feelings from all those many years ago and the reasons why Thatcherism was born by recounting some historical facts that I lived through.

Don't forget that was long long ago and society was different, culture was different.

Does anyone here remember those 1970's times of the oil-shocks, the stock market crash and huge raging inflation?
I would say we were so very lucky to have had the opportunity of the coming oil revenues then.

Also anyone remember how we went cap in hand to the IMF so we could beg on our knees to secure a 'bail-out' of £2.5bn ?
The then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Denis Healey,(nice bloke I thought) implemented severe public spending cuts and a major strategy of economic austerity.

Thatcher became Prime Minister in 1979.
Already the UK had become a complete economic basket-case. The economic outlook was more than bleak, it was desperate .
Growth did not exist. Inflation was killing the living standards of everyone.
The years of conflict between the unions and the then Labour government eventually led to government chaos and downfall.

The then Labour government was completely helpless as it tried to enforce an incomes policy on the reluctant trade unions, inflation was at record highs.
The oil tanker drivers were striking at will, road haulage disputes with violent and bitter secondary picketing, followed by a strike of the public sector put the whole country into shock. The government had given up. The Unions were discontented and extreme. Between 9 - 10 million days got lost due to industrial action. Even more than the historic general strike of 1926.
I reckon we all remember those public sector strikes. The author Douglas Smith wrote “ the county was virtually paralysed”, he even said there was 'a serious shortage of food and medical supplies.'

As a young man in my twenties I actually lived and worked through all those times. It was darn scary and constantly unstable. Many time I thought I'd lose everthing.

That period from 1974 -1979 was such a disaster. In almost every respect it became a political legend. Seems too many folks forget too easily.

I haven't.!!!!!!

When Harold Wilson resigned in 1976, he knew, the whole country knew, he was leaving a sinking ship.

James Callaghan did his best but still formed a devils-pact with the Liberals, not only to stay in power but also to finally bring the unions under a controlling whip and to also to finally force an incomes policy on them come what may.

Herein lay the roots for the infamous 'Winter of Discontent'. Remember that?

I do!!!!!

All the above are FACTS. Period.

Nothing to do with Thatcher at all.

But try to think back to those times. If you lived through them try to really recall the emotions.

This next rant may not be factual, but just how I saw it at the time.

The unions had originally given birth to the Labour party. Blood is thicker than water when it come to children and there could never be any winners between them. Not even the country itself could win.

I wanted something to happen. The whole country wanted something big to happen.

It did.
The "Winter of Discontent"

Followed by Mrs Thatcher winning the next election. For good or for bad.

That's called history, and I lived through it. What a time I've had.

Just my 2 centavos

[grahamw48]

Well I think you will find Argentina doesn't belong to the Argies anyway
Sorry for being loyal to the Crown and our servicemen but you lost your credibility in this discussion when you said the belgrano was sank at the end of the war-pure rubbish.
Lets hope we never have a war as I don't think you will be on my side

.
Yes, most are pretty much 'Johnny-come latelies'.

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigen...s_in_Argentina

[les_taxi]

I'm not a politically minded person. I'd prefer to see talented folks running the country and government departments regardless of political doctrine.

Just feel like contributing my own feelings from all those many years ago and the reasons why Thatcherism was born by recounting some historical facts that I lived through.

Don't forget that was long long ago and society was different, culture was different.

Does anyone here remember those 1970's times of the oil-shocks, the stock market crash and huge raging inflation?
I would say we were so very lucky to have had the opportunity of the coming oil revenues then.

Also anyone remember how we went cap in hand to the IMF so we could beg on our knees to secure a 'bail-out' of £2.5bn ?
The then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Denis Healey,(nice bloke I thought) implemented severe public spending cuts and a major strategy of economic austerity.

Thatcher became Prime Minister in 1979.
Already the UK had become a complete economic basket-case. The economic outlook was more than bleak, it was desperate .
Growth did not exist. Inflation was killing the living standards of everyone.
The years of conflict between the unions and the then Labour government eventually led to government chaos and downfall.

The then Labour government was completely helpless as it tried to enforce an incomes policy on the reluctant trade unions, inflation was at record highs.
The oil tanker drivers were striking at will, road haulage disputes with violent and bitter secondary picketing, followed by a strike of the public sector put the whole country into shock. The government had given up. The Unions were discontented and extreme. Between 9 - 10 million days got lost due to industrial action. Even more than the historic general strike of 1926.
I reckon we all remember those public sector strikes. The author Douglas Smith wrote “ the county was virtually paralysed”, he even said there was 'a serious shortage of food and medical supplies.'

As a young man in my twenties I actually lived and worked through all those times. It was darn scary and constantly unstable. Many time I thought I'd lose everthing.

That period from 1974 -1979 was such a disaster. In almost every respect it became a political legend. Seems too many folks forget too easily.

I haven't.!!!!!!

When Harold Wilson resigned in 1976, he knew, the whole country knew, he was leaving a sinking ship.

James Callaghan did his best but still formed a devils-pact with the Liberals, not only to stay in power but also to finally bring the unions under a controlling whip and to also to finally force an incomes policy on them come what may.

Herein lay the roots for the infamous 'Winter of Discontent'. Remember that?

I do!!!!!

All the above are FACTS. Period.

Nothing to do with Thatcher at all.

But try to think back to those times. If you lived through them try to really recall the emotions.

This next rant may not be factual, but just how I saw it at the time.

The unions had originally given birth to the Labour party. Blood is thicker than water when it come to children and there could never be any winners between them. Not even the country itself could win.

I wanted something to happen. The whole country wanted something big to happen.

It did.
The "Winter of Discontent"

Followed by Mrs Thatcher winning the next election. For good or for bad.

That's called history, and I lived through it. What a time I've had.

Just my 2 centavos

Very well said and just how I felt as I lived through it,rep for that it's an excellent post

[London_Manila]

Thatcher's great idea of selling off all our social housing stock (most of it)
buy your own council house now and then in the future we will will put up the interest rates to 15% and then you lose it = lack of social housing now rents sky high

privatise everything was such a great idea = so enjoy your winter fuel bills now not to mention water bills

British Rail = rail fares are high now thank her for that

I will give her some credit for curbing the unions but the effect of that went way too far
people nowadays are getting government handouts because their employers dont pay them a "livable" wage
Greedy employers in the uk pay peanuts to their workers and the governments backs them up with tax credits
The influx of eastern Europeans actually helped the greedy employers here because they will work for peanuts
Driving wages down to pathetic levels ...................

I count myself lucky as i work in a unionised workplace the same kind of union that the right wing Tory press would have you believe that are so bad for our country = bad for greedy employers only not bad for normal people who actually work and demand a livable wage

[Pete/London]

Yes lived through it as well Peter, 3 day weeks, bodies not getting buried, union closed shop practices. I was working on the building of the Barbican and rarely got a full week in because of strikes. The country was an embarrassment.

Do you know I had high hopes that these union leaders were going to make a contribution from the house of lords, like fighting for better pensions for the working man, not a whisper. All took their payoff into the sunset.

[les_taxi]

Think you will find some of these "union leaders" champions of the working class have done very well for themselves

[Michael Parnham]

Wow! what a subject, all I have to say is, "lets have more leaders like Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher then the nation wouldn't be in a mess. And with reference to the coal mining industry, it was Arthur Scargill that destroyed all the mining industry!

[les_taxi]

Yes it was that low life Scargill

[joebloggs]

Think you will find some of these "union leaders" champions of the working class have done very well for themselves

you'll find many more bosses who did even better, Former HBOS boss £590,000 pension :icon_lol http://money.uk.msn.com/ex-bank-boss...ghthood-back-1
thats more than some people will earn in a working life time in charge of a collapsed bank

employers who can get away with not paying pay rises, i know people who have not had a pay rise in 10yrs, the only increase they got was when the minimum wage was increased and changes in tax allowances,

sounds like many of you have never worked for a employer

[grahamw48]

True for the past 30 years.

If I don't go out and do some work my pay = ZERO minus my expenses.

[grahamw48]

Yes it was that low life Scargill

YES it was !

[bigmarco]

Probably find that there's not many union leaders could afford to spend the last 4/5 months of their life in a suite at the Ritz

[grahamw48]

Well old Arthur has hardly been roughing it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/s...rgill-barbican

[joebloggs]

Probably find that there's not many union leaders could afford to spend the last 4/5 months of their life in a suite at the Ritz

and as i posted before, some pensioners cant even afford the Ritz biscuit.

i bet she was on a nice pension unlike many pensioners

but hey i was doing good in them days. and that's all that matters - compassion

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...s-poor-society

But from the very beginning of the 18 years of Conservative rule the poor were under the cosh. No developed state, with the exception of New Zealand, suffered such a brutal widening of inequality. In 1979 the post-tax income of the top 10% of the population was five times that of the bottom 10%; by 1997 it had doubled to 10 times as much. After three decades during which economic growth was shared across income groups, the distribution went into reverse.