Council Property and No Recourse To Public Funds

[chrissy_uk]

Hi All,

I recently married in the Philippines and I'm now making preparations for my wife's UK spouse visa.

I think I understand the main requirements fairly well, but there are some grey areas concerning public funds that I'm not too confident about.

I have a good job and earn almost double the required sponsor threshold and have savings, but at the moment still live in a council property shared with one parent. Both my name and the name of my parent are on the tenancy agreement. I pay half of the rent and utility bills and neither of us claim any benefits of any kind.

I had originally intended that my wife and I would live here temporarily until she is settled and then we can find a place of our own together.

My question is, will the UKBA see living in a council property as recourse to public funds even though the tenancy agreement is in my name? I did not want to have to move out now as it would delay the application for the visa by at least another six months and I would rather my wife were here when we make a decision about where we will live permanently.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

[Michael Parnham]

Hi Chris, welcome to our friendly forum. With regards to your question, I wouldn't have thought that there would be any problem with living in a council house but I'm sure someone on here with experience on this subject will be able to confirm in more detail if for some reason I am wrong, good luck for the future!

[imagine]

your wife will not have recourse to public funds, for one thing her name will not be on the tenancy, so that part of it is not a problem,
though I think you will need something to say you have the landlords permission for your wife to stay, give details of rooms ect, so they know your not overcrowded, ie, your own bedroom and use of kitchen ect,

like Michael says others with better experience wil advise

[joebloggs]

yes you will need permission\letter from the council stating its ok for her to live there and it will not be overcrowded.

[Terpe]

For your partner it's not considered recourse to public funds so no concerns on that council house issue.
As others have said have the council provide you with that important letter or report. If your council can be persuaded to give you a property inspection report for free togther with their permission for her to live there then that would be better. If not then just a supporting letter is OK

As a British Citizen you are fully entitled to claim whatever benefits you are entitled to without any detrimental impacts on the immigration status of your partners.
Just be aware that in principle you're not allowed to claim more benefit simply because your partner is living with you and you'll have no problems at all.

[chrissy_uk]

Thank you all for your input, it has put my mind somewhat more at ease

I'm hoping my wife's visa will be granted first time; really want to get this right and not have to go through the appeal courts. I know how picky and awkward the UKBA can be sometimes, so I'm keeping my finger's crossed it all goes smoothly.

[Terpe]

Thank you all for your input, it has put my mind somewhat more at ease

I'm hoping my wife's visa will be granted first time; really want to get this right and not have to go through the appeal courts. I know how picky and awkward the UKBA can be sometimes, so I'm keeping my finger's crossed it all goes smoothly.

Just be sure you fully comply with all the requirements and they'll have no reason to refuse.
All the requirements are pretty well specified.
The ECO's and caseworkers have very little discretion these days

Problems only occur when you fail to comply / meet specification

Good luck.
If you have concerns, don't be shy to ask. Many members here followed that same path with success.

[chrissy_uk]

For your partner it's not considered recourse to public funds so no concerns on that council house issue.
As others have said have the council provide you with that important letter or report. If your council can be persuaded to give you a property inspection report for free togther with their permission for her to live there then that would be better. If not then just a supporting letter is OK

Having contacted the council, they seem only willing to provide me with a copy of the tenancy agreement. I requested a letter of consent for my wife to live with me in the UK, but they have indicated that they are unable to provide this. They also do not provide an inspection report, so I will need to get this done by a private surveyor.

How essential is it that I obtain a letter of consent from the council? I really would not want a visa application to be refused just based on this piece of evidence being missing. Perhaps I should ask to speak to someone else about the matter to explain the necessity for a letter?

[Terpe]

Having contacted the council, they seem only willing to provide me with a copy of the tenancy agreement. I requested a letter of consent for my wife to live with me in the UK, but they have indicated that they are unable to provide this. They also do not provide an inspection report, so I will need to get this done by a private surveyor.

How essential is it that I obtain a letter of consent from the council? I really would not want a visa application to be refused just based on this piece of evidence being missing. Perhaps I should ask to speak to someone else about the matter to explain the necessity for a letter?

Don't get overly hung up on this just yet.

Read the tenancy agreement, what does it say about extra occupant(s)?
If it says it's allowed, it will be OK for UKBA. If it's really vague or if it says something like "..to occupy personally and not assign, sub-let or share nor permit use or occupation by anyone else.."
Then naturally you'll need a separate letter from the landlord (council) that your wife can live there.

In my opinion, when living in a council property, there is a legal requirement on the council to comply with all requirements. You really don't need to go to the expense of securing an independent a property inspection report.
Especially if the tenancy agreement with the local council shows the accommodation to be 'adequate'
An independent a property inspection report is more relevant to the private sector and in particular to house of multiple occupancy.

Does the tenancy agreement indicate anything about the living space/rooms etc?
Usually even a 1-bed flat for a couple would be fine.

Please take some time to review your tenancy agreement and satisfy yourself that it says just what the UKBA/ECO is looking for.
Ideally it should confirm details of tenure and occupation of the accommodation, together with a description of the accommodation.

In principle the ECO needs to be satisfied that:-

- The accommodation is availability and adequate
- That (where applicable) the permission of the owner of the accommodation has been given
- That no additional public funds will be necessary for accommodating the applicant in cases where the sponsor lives in accommodation from public funds.
- It is (or will be) owned or legally occupied for the exclusive use of the couple
- It is capable of accommodating the couple, and any children, without overcrowding as defined in the Housing Act 1985
- There is no breach of any tenancy agreement as regards sub-letting

Hope this helps you

[Michael Parnham]

Hi I'm back, been busy moving house, we now have lots to keep us busy for a little longer. Only neglected the forum for a few days. One question I have to ask is, Will it matter that Maritess has her name on our rental contract when we apply for her ILR? Because reading the paperwork from the benefits department ref my housing benefit it states that the amount is assessed on two people living in the property. A few months ago I did query with them that the amount paid was definitely in my name only, as my wife has No recourse to public funds, and they assured me that the benefit issued to me was correct!

[Terpe]

Hi I'm back, been busy moving house, we now have lots to keep us busy for a little longer. Only neglected the forum for a few days. One question I have to ask is, Will it matter that Maritess has her name on our rental contract when we apply for her ILR? Because reading the paperwork from the benefits department ref my housing benefit it states that the amount is assessed on two people living in the property. A few months ago I did query with them that the amount paid was definitely in my name only, as my wife has No recourse to public funds, and they assured me that the benefit issued to me was correct!

Is this a council property or is it a private tenancy?

If it's a housing association property was it a referral by the local authority or housing authority?

[Michael Parnham]

Hello Peter, It's private, I had to find a property in the UK so that Maritess could prove we had a home to move in to when we arrived here so that she could put the detail in for her Visa application, and the contract was in both our names as Mr & Mrs. The contract was one of the requirements with proof that we had paid six months rent in advance!

[Terpe]

Hello Peter, It's private, I had to find a property in the UK so that Maritess could prove we had a home to move in to when we arrived here so that she could put the detail in for her Visa application, and the contract was in both our names as Mr & Mrs. The contract was one of the requirements with proof that we had paid six months rent in advance!

Michael,

This is quite a complex issue.

Some benefits are actually specifically defined in terms of the impacts on immigration status, whereas some others, like Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are not well defined.
I don't feel adequately qualified to comment of the technicalities of benefits that are not clearly defined within immigration rules.

I can however share the immigration rules.

The 'cornerstone' is clearly stated by UKBA in that

A person subject to immigration control is not considered as accessing public funds if it is their partner who is receiving the funds they are entitled to.

The important words here are "....their partner who is receiving the funds they are entitled to."

That's pretty clear in that if you are eligible to claim benefits and you claim ONLY what you're entitled to and you make the claim SOLELY
in your name, then there is no impact on your partners immigration status. Period.

Now concerning those benefits where the claim requires being made jointly as a couple like Child and Working Tax Credits, provided the payment is made to the named partner not subject to 'no recourse to public funds' UKBA has again clearly stated that

Child and working tax credits are claimed jointly by couples. If only one member of a couple is subject to immigration control, then for tax credits purposes, neither are treated as being subject to immigration control.

So again very clearly there is no impact on your partners immigration status. Period.

There is no similar clear statement(s) made by UKBA in connection with Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit.
Probably because there's a lot of technical legislation attached to these benefits and the methodology of calculating the benefit.

The immigration rules do however state:-

6A. For the purpose of these Rules, a person (P) is not to be regarded as having (or potentially having) recourse to public funds merely because P is (or will be) reliant in whole or in part on public funds provided to P's sponsor unless, as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom, the sponsor is (or would be) entitled to increased or additional public funds (save where such entitlement to increased or additional public funds is by virtue of P and the sponsor's joint entitlement to benefits under the regulations referred to in paragraph 6B).

So in simple terms of calculating if there exists any 'increased or additional public funds' try this:-

- Determine the Housing Benefit you would get if you were a single person with only your current income.

- Determine the Housing Benefit you would get as a couple (include couple joint income)

Compare the results. When the couple benefit is more than the single benefit then increased or additional recourse to public funds exists.
If that's not the case then you can include your partner as there's no increased or additional recourse.

To be safe, I believe you should ask to confirm IN WRITING that you have informed them that your wife is not entitled to added public funds and that they have made their benefits calculations accordingly.
That is, that you would have been entitled to the same amount of benefit even if your wife wasn't with you.
Don't be surprised if they either don't or can't give you a response. There are just some things that cannot legally be done (like actually treating you as a single when you not)
As mentioned, this is very technical. If anyone else has any comments we'd all appreciate some feedback on these benefits and how to handle them from an immigration rules aspect.

Michael, this webpage called Benefits Adviser might be useful.


I only wish I could give a much more positive answer.

[Michael Parnham]

Hello Peter, thank's for your advice. It seems that after looking through the Benefits Adviser that only one person can claim, and it's in my name only, so hopefully it should be ok! I will be calling in the benefit office every month to take Maritess payslip, because she is working 'as & when' so her salary could be different each month, whilst there I will ask if they can give me something in writing to confirm that my benefit is worked out on my name only. Will let you know when I've found out!

[Terpe]

Hello Peter, thank's for your advice. It seems that after looking through the Benefits Adviser that only one person can claim, and it's in my name only, so hopefully it should be ok! I will be calling in the benefit office every month to take Maritess payslip, because she is working 'as & when' so her salary could be different each month, whilst there I will ask if they can give me something in writing to confirm that my benefit is worked out on my name only. Will let you know when I've found out!

Good strategy Michael
At least UKBA cannot claim it's deliberate claiming.
Just be cautious. As I said it's complex and even for council tax you cannot legally be treated as single.

Good luck

[chrissy_uk]

Does the tenancy agreement indicate anything about the living space/rooms etc?

Thanks for the advice Terpe.

I've reviewed the tenancy agreement, but I'm still not convinced that it will be enough

The agreement I requested from the council is a photocopy of the original and goes back quite a few years.

It provides information about the property, including the bedrooms and occupancy limit, written as "Beds/Pers 2/4". I presume this means two bedrooms with a maximum occupancy of four people.

There is nothing to mention anything with regards to sub-letting or that only the people listed on the agreement are allowed to reside there. Above the signature it simply states that the signatory confirms that the people named on the agreement will live there, but it does not say 'exclusively' those people.

What do you think?
Should I try to get the council to provide a letter in this case (they have already declined to do so when I originally requested).

Would an independent property inspection report still be worth getting?