Buggered.

[sm1971]

SOG filed for an appeal, and our annulment case is going to go to the Court of Appeals.

Does anyone here have experience with that? The only timeframe I found online was the Kristine-Diet marriage, where it took 3 years....

[Arthur Little]

... ... bed if I know ...

[Terpe]

SOG filed for an appeal, and our annulment case is going to go to the Court of Appeals.

Does anyone here have experience with that? The only timeframe I found online was the Kristine-Diet marriage, where it took 3 years....

(SOG)? Did you mean OSG?

Like all cases it depends on the legal technicalities. I never yet found two 'experts' who agree.
The case you mention hinged on whether the marriage actually took place. Quite complex I would have thought.

[sm1971]

Solicitor General - SOG, not sure why my asawa abbreviates it like that.

We don't know why they made the appeal. It's the second, the first was to the judge to rethink his decision, the second now is to the court of appeals.

How do these people think it is ok to toy with other people's lives? To deny them their free will to be with who they want to be? The Philippines are evil. Corrupt and evil.

[Terpe]

Solicitor General - SOG, not sure why my asawa abbreviates it like that.

We don't know why they made the appeal. It's the second, the first was to the judge to rethink his decision, the second now is to the court of appeals.

How do these people think it is ok to toy with other people's lives? To deny them their free will to be with who they want to be? The Philippines are evil. Corrupt and evil.

It does seem odd to have reached this point. As I mentioned maybe a technical point of law that isn't clear.

(Bit like UK right now with the ECHU dates for last appeal and deportation deadline)

Or does the ex have that degree of influence.

Can't really help with timeline. Sorry

[sm1971]

It does seem odd to have reached this point. As I mentioned maybe a technical point of law that isn't clear.

(Bit like UK right now with the ECHU dates for last appeal and deportation deadline)

Or does the ex have that degree of influence.

Can't really help with timeline. Sorry

Our annulment was quicker than usual (1.5 years instead of 2 - would have been 1 year had not 2 fiscals held up the case to extort some money from us), and it was mentioned that this may have led to a suspicion of corruption.

Another possibility is that a relative of the husband involved the OSG; His dad or uncle in the past mailed the court something (though I don't know details).

I hate how muddy this all is, nobody tells us what's going on. We thought we were in the clear, as we were told the judge had filed the verdict in February or early March, so the time for an appeal had run out. Turns out that it was only filed late March and the OSG waited until the last possible moment (like the first time) to make the appeal.


We are now exploring other options. F*ck the Philippines.

1) There is the possibility that my employer transfers me to Singapore, so she could come too, and we could live there together until she becomes an SG citizen, gets a divorce as in any civilized country, and we finally marry.

2) The other option is a work visa in the UK (or CH, I was just planning to move about thinking that all is in the clear now, and start a new life together in a long term job), stay and work long enough for a citizenship, divorce, marry. Problem with this approach is that the kid would probably have to stay behind which is something I want to avoid at pretty much all costs.

I promised the little one a snow ball fight 2 years ago, and now it seems he'll be in puberty before that can happen. He so wants to see snow and play in it... :(

Can maybe somebody advice regarding our two workarounds?

[Terpe]

What's your nationality?
Are you and you g/f currently living together? if yes for how long?

[sm1971]

What's your nationality?
Are you and you g/f currently living together? if yes for how long?

German, living in the UK since 2003. She's a Pinay living in the Philippines, same with her son (ok, he;s a Pinoy ). Her husband is working in Dubai since 2005 or so, and has a new relationship as well. He's filipino as well.

Our relationship started in August 2009, with lots of chats and a number of visits.


How did you think we could be living together if she is technically still married?

[joebloggs]

How did you think we could be living together if she is technically still married?

if you had lived togther at least 2yrs might be possible to apply for http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/po...eun2/#header11

EUN2.11 How do unmarried partners qualify for an EEA family permit?

An unmarried partner can be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are in a 'durable relationship' with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules, that is, that the that the parties have been living together in a relationship skin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for at least 2 years. This does not mean that unmarried partners are assessed or have to meet paragraph 295A or the Immigration rules. Rather, the ECO will have to consider factors such as the length of cohabitation, joint finances, whether the couple have children together etc. to establish whether or not the relationship is 'durable'. Each case must be looked at on its own merits. While regulation 12(2) makes provision for the issuing of a Family permit to extended family members (including unmarried partners), ECOs should be aware that simply meeting the extended family member criteria is insufficient. Even where an ECO is satisfied that the applicant is in a 'durable' relationship, the ECO needs to go on to consider whether, in all the circumstances, it appears to the entry clearance officer appropriate to issue the family permit' (Regulation 12(2)(c). Factors to be considered here would include things such as evidence of criminality.

[sm1971]

@JB: I would be very, very surprised if they wouldn't take a look at her passport and see the word "married" and take no issue with that.

[fred]

1) There is the possibility that my employer transfers me to Singapore, so she could come too, and we could live there together until she becomes an SG citizen, gets a divorce as in any civilized country, and we finally marry.

How would she be eligible to become an SG Citizen? You are German! Did you mean Become a resident?

There are several different types of people eligible to apply for citizenship:

• Permanent Residents at least 21 years old, who have been resident on a permanent basis for 2-6 years
• A Permanent Resident who has completed the National Service obligation
• The spouse of a Singaporean who has been both married and a Permanent Resident for at least 2 years
• A child born outside of Singapore with one of both parents holding Singaporean citizenship

What are the minimum requirements for her to obtain a divorce in Singapore?
Sounds like it might be a good work around but would be interested in more details to make sure its really feasible.

[jonnijon]

Only thing you can do with annulment in the Philippines is wait and wait and wait and keep very quiet,and let it happen. Waited 3 years for our annulment to come through.
I think she can travel to Singapore without a visa.

[sm1971]

The idea is she comes as a tourist, for which she would gain entry easily. Then she finds a job, gets the paperwork done and stays. (There's a lot of paperwork, so it won't be easy) We are also exploring the option of a student stay (no idea if that's feasible). In any case, after staying a year she can apply to become a Permanent Resident, and after two years as Permanent Resident she can apply to become a Citizen. Once she is a Citizen she can divorce, and the Phils have no say in it anymore. She can probably divorce earlier, but the Phils IIRC don't accept divorces that are not done by foreign nationals.

The whole workaround would take at least 4-5 years, probably longer, but at least we could stay together.

[sm1971]

Only thing you can do with annulment in the Philippines is wait and wait and wait and keep very quiet,and let it happen. Waited 3 years for our annulment to come through.
I think she can travel to Singapore without a visa.

We started the process in November 2009. The actual court case was filed in March 2010, I think. So we will beat your 3 years easily, and the outcome is unclear. IIRC I read here once from someone who had to wait (and fight) 7 years.

[Terpe]

..... IIRC I read here once from someone who had to wait (and fight) 7 years.

I know about that one. There are some special issues involved that are not present in your case.

Anyways, your Singapore route looks to be worth investigating and may prove easier than an EU. Certainly easier and less expensive than a UK route.

Here's a link that might be of some interest

[joebloggs]

@JB: I would be very, very surprised if they wouldn't take a look at her passport and see the word "married" and take no issue with that.

one of the reasons the unmarried partner visa was created was for people who cannot divorce, eg filipino's, the unmarried part refers to you and your partner - as you cant marry (unless there is an annulment as you know)

[sm1971]

one of the reasons the unmarried partner visa was created was for people who cannot divorce, eg filipino's, the unmarried part refers to you and your partner - as you cant marry (unless there is an annulment as you know)

I am struggling to believe that. There are only 3 backwaters where you can't divorce, so I'd be surprised of the EU made an exception for those:

- The Home Of Satan (Vatican)
- Some weird island (Malta)
- The Motherland Of Corruption (no need to explain that one)


However, I'll verify with an adviser, cheers.

[Terpe]

You don't need an advisor, just look at the relevant UKBA webpage.

[sars_notd_virus]

SOG filed for an appeal, and our annulment case is going to go to the Court of Appeals.

The only timeframe I found online was the Kristine-Diet marriage, where it took 3 years....

It varies ,depends on what is inside the annulment proceedings the Solicitor General must have seen some points to appeal ie, custody of the child; divisons of properties of the respondent and petitioner ; ...your attorney should immediately file a motion for reconsideration to sort this out.

[sm1971]

Ah, you evil people. You are getting my hopes up again.

- I spoke to an advisor and he said to just go for it. I assume that he had his fee in mind just a little bit, though... He admitted later that it would just be a punt.
- But... The family permit referenced above refers to paragraph 295A, which states:

"(ii) any previous marriage or civil partnership (or similar relationship) by either partner has permanently broken down; "

No word about divorce or annulment. Huh. I always assumed that divorce or annulment was implied, but then why word it like above?

Got an appointment with the advisor on Thursday, there we'll go into more detail (but we're going to do the application ourselves, a real fee is too much for a punt), and then we'll just go for it.

[joebloggs]

I am struggling to believe that. There are only 3 backwaters where you can't divorce, so I'd be surprised of the EU made an exception for those:

- The Home Of Satan (Vatican)
- Some weird island (Malta)
- The Motherland Of Corruption (no need to explain that one)


However, I'll verify with an adviser, cheers.

I dont think it has anything to do with the EU, i think it was done by the British gov for those who use the EU route, as under British immigration rules there was the unmarried partner visa, so they recognised the need for one for those using the EU route.

have you lived together for 2yrs 'akin to marriage' ? and have evidence of this? or maybe you could go and live there ???

good luck with what ever you do thou

[joebloggs]

Got an appointment with the advisor on Thursday, there we'll go into more detail (but we're going to do the application ourselves, a real fee is too much for a punt), and then we'll just go for it.

a family permit should cost you nothing to apply for

[sm1971]

a family permit should cost you nothing to apply for

I meant the fee of the lawyer - it would be 650 for full service. Way too much for a punt.

[sm1971]

I dont think it has anything to do with the EU, i think it was done by the British gov for those who use the EU route, as under British immigration rules there was the unmarried partner visa, so they recognised the need for one for those using the EU route.

have you lived together for 2yrs 'akin to marriage' ? and have evidence of this? or maybe you could go and live there ???

good luck with what ever you do thou

We don't have the living together bit, but we have the relationship bit. It's all quite vague.

[grahamw48]

'The Home Of Satan'.



We'd get along.

[sm1971]

Ok, spoke to two attorneys, and we now have the reason why the OSG appealed.

OSG: They just don't think that my Minnie would be insane enough not to be suitable for marriage. Damn, I agree. Surprising, isn't it? Stupid law. No, not stupid - criminal. :P

ATT1: Inexperienced, but nice. Referred me to ATT2 who is more senior. Thinks it's a punt.

ATT2: Says we have a good chance if things are presented right. Fee 1.5k for both.

We'll have another consultation with ATT2, this time with both of us. I don't mind the fee if the application is successful, but I am not sure if we do indeed have good chances. Should we go for it, then we'd do it with a lawyer, though - don't want to go any unnecessary risk.

[grahamw48]

It's only money, and you have 25 years + to pay it back.