Tax fat, subsidise health ?

[Doc Alan]

Elsewhere in the forum it's been noted that UK women are " fattest in Europe ".
Obesity ( Body Mass Index / BMI more than 30 - BMI correlates fairly well with obesity ) affects about 1 / 4 adult males and females in the UK and also the Philippines, more in the USA, and possibly 500 million in the world as a whole.
The other side of the coin, malnourishment, is still a problem in the Philippines, such that there is a similar proportion of children and adults with malnourishment as obesity in different regions.
There are many health problems arising from the wrong diet, too much or too little of the right food. These include diabetes, heart disease, certain cancers, joint diseases - not forgetting poor self - esteem and depression. That's because most diets - and many health campaigns including responsible marketing by firms with labelling and reducing salt, sugar and fat content of foods - have not proved successful. It's accepted that gaining weight is far easier than losing it. "Eat less and exercise more" is not working for a quarter of our population. Treating obesity in the UK accounts for around 4% of the NHS budget. Here we spend 10% of our GDP on health ; it's less than 1% in the Philippines.
Tobacco and alcohol sales generate revenue from taxation. In this country it's more than the direct NHS cost of treatment, but probably less than the total indirect / social cost. Illegal drugs generate nothing and cost a fortune, but that's another matter.
In October Denmark became the first country in the world to impose a tax on fatty foods. Any food with a saturated fat content of more than 2.3% is taxed at a rate of 16 kroner / kg ( 1.85 GBP ) of saturated fat - adding about 25p to a pack of butter and 8p to a pack of crisps.
Denmark has a far lower rate of obesity than the UK. A minority of other countries are now looking at taxing unhealthy foods. David Cameron mentioned it during the Conservative Conference in October.
The theory is that taxes would reduce consumption of unhealthy foods, contribute to the cost of treating complications of obesity - and, in the Philippines for example, subsidise purchase of staple foods like rice, other vegetables and fruit.
Of course the idea of a fat tax could be criticised as another example of the " nanny state ", and that it might affect the poor more than affluent members of the population.
Obesity is one of the biggest health challenges facing the UK and many other countries. It's become a lifestyle choice which individuals ( through self control ) and health services are finding increasingly hard to carry, literally .

[lastlid]

Nice idea and nice post. My good wife has put on a few pounds since arriving here 2 months ago. ( I wonder if any other filipinas have found the same). Difficult to say exactly why in our case but I think it is just down to lack of exercise. So she is frantically trying to diet right now....

[Bluebirdjones]

Perhaps another (cheaper) alternative is ...

... if you're a certain %age over your optimal weight, you have a wear a T-shirt with "I'm a Fat Bast**d" written on it in LARGE LETTERS.

The shirts could be available in a variety of stand-out colours, Pink, Yellow, Red, White.

[les_taxi]

Food is much cheaper than it was years ago.
I remember we would be excited when for a change we would have a chicken for sunday roast instead of beef that was a once a month treat.
Now most people could have a chicken every day!
Also having a takeaway was a treat now we can have one everyday if we want.
We just eat too much and our portion sizes have shot up too.

[lastlid]

Yep, thats it, we scoff too much and too much of the wrong food and then don't burn it off......

[grahamw48]

I think taxing fat (in foods) would be a great idea. Bring it on.

Alcohol and tobacco products are already heavily taxed, so why not ?

Going back a few years here, far fewer people had cars, far more meals were home-cooked, and EVERYBODY exercised a lot more, whether just doing the shopping, or when engaged in manual work both inside and outside the home.

[lastlid]

I agree. Some folk now, simply spend their entire day just moving and clicking the mouse. And typing. I used to work in an office full of 100s of people like that, until february last year.

[raynaputi]

I'm not sure if anyone of you have seen this, but the video is being passed on Facebook..

[Terpe]

That video clip bought back some happy memories

Luckily I found the traditional Japanese food really suited my taste. Hmm
In our company office we always did those excercises every morning.
I was very slim in those days lol

That was a long time ago now

[gWaPito]

Good post Doc Alan...Junk foods, fags and alcohol should be taxed to the hilt....seemingly bright intelligent people on a mission to curtail there God given lives at the expense of there children etc is...unbelievable

Just my opinion......no offence intended

[Terpe]

It'll soon be 1 year since I quit the weed.
I felt much better (healthier) even after a couple of weeks.
When I quit a packet of 20 was around £5
Now I notice it's around £7

Wow, now I'm richer as well

To be honest, I've become a very 'staunch' anti-smoking person.
(if staunch is the correct term)

I put on plenty of weight and by July had gained 2 stone.
I've managed to claw back just over 1 stone so still have a tough path ahead.

I told my wife sex is the answer

[gWaPito]

Well done Terpe...just goes to show, its never too late...nobody is obliged to life long smoking all because its perceived, too late in the day to stop.

My dad was told at 49yo that if he didn't stop his 80 a day habit, he'd be dead within 5 years. He stopped at 50yo with the aid of hypnosis thus living a further active 28 years.

[Englishman2010]

If there is a tax on fat, this should also be extended to cover food high in sugar and salt. I'm sure a lot of people don't read or understand the nutritional labels of food packaging, but if you read the lables you can easily see that so called health foods may be low in fat, but they can contain 30 or 40% sugar A typical box of cereal marketed as low fat can have a sugar content as high as 50%. I am not an expert on this, but I have read a lot about food nutrition and understand that if your body is not able to burn off the sugar it consumes, it is stored as fat (simple explanation). Sugar is also harmful to teeth. Processed and junk foods are usually very high in sugar, fat and salt, plus lots of other preservatives you wouldnt want to eat if you knew what they could do to you.
Fresh, unprocessed meat or fish and vegetables or salad and fruit would be a much healthier diet for all and should be subsidised to encourage more people to eat them.

edit: if a fat tax is applied, how will fatty items be determined? Olive oil is a highly concentrated fat, yet it is one one the healthiest products around. Butter, cheese, eggs, real meat and fish are high in saturated fat, but there are many benefits from eating these too as they are high in protein, calcium and many other vitamins and minerals.

Personally I think it is far better to tax processed foods and encourage people to learn to cook with real ingredients again rather than buying ready meals and processed junk

[lastlid]

I am not an expert on this, but I have read a lot about food nutrition and understand that if your body is not able to burn off the sugar it consumes, it is stored as fat (simple explanation)......

Yes. Quite right. My daughter is a Dietetic SRN Nurse and she drummed all this into me.

We like the taste of fat and the taste of sugar and salt in food and to buy these preprepared food products the manufacturers bung at least some of those ingredients into them to make us buy the product again.......

Take the humble pot of yoghourt. In an attempt to lose a few pounds, you seize upon the low fat variety only to find that they have stuffed it full of sugar.

[mickcant]

I am trying to loose weight

And have noticed that some of the healthcare staff advising me are also in need of reducing!

I am gradually reducing portion size, but one thing I find is that with cooking for one
it seems pointless having only 3 or 4 pieces of potato roasting, even if I have the meat in with them

Mick

[Doc Alan]

A " fat tax " could be applied to everyone with a BMI over 30 - but that would never be accepted ! ( BMI can't be universally applied as a measure of obesity, and overweight non-smokers / non-drinkers in the UK might feel they deserve treatment for health complications of their lifestyle choice ).
It's true fats aren't all bad - although they all contain the same levels of calories. It's the saturated fats such as those in dairy products and processed foods, and chemically altered trans fats ( also in processed foods ) which are bad in excess.
Protein and carbohydrates, salt in moderation, and roughage ( fruit and vegetables ) all contribute to healthy eating ... the problem is that members who bother to read this thread - and educated members of the public - know that already ! Also with Christmas approaching it's hard always to be sensible with eating , drinking and exercising .
A tax on unhealthy foods is only one possibility for dealing with an epidemic of obesity which increasingly individuals and governments can't afford. In September Hungary introduced taxes on a range of pre-packaged unhealthy foods with high salt and sugar content. But already food producers and others have criticised them, saying they're discriminatory, will hurt local businesses, and will affect poorer people disproportionately. Nutritional experts say that even if a vast range of foods are taxed, eating habits are unlikely to change - if someone wants a particular product they will have it, or something similar, no matter what.
The " experts " are not always right, but WHO ( World Health Organisation ) says there are question marks over the effectiveness of taxes limited to a narrow range of products - and very few countries have so far gone down the taxation route.
This debate will run and run - even if not on the forum. We all know the consequences of too many calories and too little exercise. It's how to tackle the problem successfully - all the more ironic and sad when malnutrition is also a problem, particularly in the Philippines.

[lastlid]

In September Hungary introduced taxes on a range of pre-packaged unhealthy foods with high salt and sugar content. But already food producers and others have criticised them, saying they're discriminatory.........

Perhaps it will force food manufacturers (of pre prepared foods etc) to lower the harmful element in the products.......if so then good!

[gWaPito]

I agree with the comment about processed foods...that comes under my 'Junk foods' heading along with foods high in salt and sugar ie processed foods.

Since Jane arrived here 2 years ago this December 6 freshly made food made from raw ingredients makes up to nearly all my food intake.

[Englishman2010]

When I'm doing my supermarket run I can't help noticing that the fattest people often have the trolleys with the most processed junk in them.

It doesn't cost any more money to eat healthily, as often processed food are more expensive than fresh ingredients.

I also don't buy the concept that convenience foods are easier to prepare than raw ingredients, I prepare and cook all of my own food and it takes no longer to cook than a processed meal would.

Do obese people really want to lose weight? I'm sure that some do and need proper education on what to eat or avoid. It also takes a great deal of will power to eat healthily and to say no to foods which in excess are bad for you. I like chocolates, cakes, biscuits, crisps ....etc, and would love to scoff them all day, but I know that eating them too often will have an adverse effect on my wasteline, so I don't eat them.

The problem we face in this country is that the large processed food manufacturers are global companies and have multi billion pound advertising budgets and no doubt help add billions to our GDP. Until they are tackled, they will be allowed to continue to fool us into thinking their low fat products are healthy.

[gWaPito]

That reminds me of a guy I knew at our gym...for months this guy would spend hours on the cardiovascular machines but, he seemed to loose any weight from his already enormous frame.

The reason didn't click until I see he and his wife, equally as big in Tesco's...there trolley was loaded with white bread cakes crisps chocolates etc.

Before that, I just assumed if somebody is investing time and money trying to get fit they'd at least change the core reason why they are fat in the first place....diet

[grahamw48]

I am trying to loose weight

And have noticed that some of the healthcare staff advising me are also in need of reducing!

I am gradually reducing portion size, but one thing I find is that with cooking for one
it seems pointless having only 3 or 4 pieces of potato roasting, even if I have the meat in with them

Mick

For 'roast' potatoes I first cook them in the microwave and then brown them in the frying pan (bacon fat or olive oil).

Hardly ever use my 'proper oven'....damned expensive, mostly the microwave or the 'health grill' to get rid of excess fat rather than frying.

I only cook for me and my boy, but we eat well, though frugally, and virtually all fresh ingredients.

I feed both of us a good varied and healthy diet for less than 40 quid a week.