An insult to decency

[bornatbirth]

are they breaking any laws?

until they do, suck it up.

[Dedworth]

are they breaking any laws?

until they do, suck it up.

Quite a few offences committed see my post 22.

Not sure what you mean by "suck it up" - if its along the lines "couldn't care less", "put your head in the sand", "do nothing and hope it goes away" or "roll over and be trampled on" then thats what's caused us to get in the mess we are in today.

[bornatbirth]

these people or should i say there are people out there doing things in which the law doesnt cover yet and new laws have to come into place, if we banned this stuff from being shown and given publicity then that will help and thats the main reason why they do it

[Dedworth]

these people or should i say there are people out there doing things in which the law doesnt cover yet and new laws have to come into place, if we banned this stuff from being shown and given publicity then that will help and thats the main reason why they do it

These creatures (poppy burning extremists) are committing offences which current laws cover but there is a lack of resolve by the Police and Political establishment to act firmly due to the policy of kow towing and appeasing the non extremist muslim majority (who mostly stay silent and refuse to condem the militants). Obviously any non muslim British citizens involved in this sort of hate mongering would face immediate arrest.

[johncar54]

Dedworth. Sorry if I appear obtuse, but what offences are they committing ?

[les_taxi]

OK John fair enough - I think these people are pushing British tolerance/fair play etc to the limit and they had better be careful as one day the worm will turn

It will turn make no mistake

[Dedworth]

Dedworth. Sorry if I appear obtuse, but what offences are they committing ?

The precedent has been set by charging others following identical actions at the Danish Embassy Mohammed Cartoon Demonsration and Luton Returning Troops Parade - see my post 22 for details of the charges/convictions

[johncar54]

It will turn make no mistake

What you are saying is reminiscent of Enoch Powel's 'Rivers of Blood' speech in 1968. I thought, like many others, that was about to happen. That was 42 years ago.

[bornatbirth]

The precedent has been set by charging others following identical actions at the Danish Embassy Mohammed Cartoon Demonsration and Luton Returning Troops Parade - see my post 22 for details of the charges/convictions

judge judy speaks

[johncar54]

The precedent has been set by charging others following identical actions at the Danish Embassy Mohammed Cartoon Demonsration and Luton Returning Troops Parade - see my post 22 for details of the charges/convictions

From looking on the internet I cannot see where the actions were the same. Weren't the others (Danish Embassy) charged with incitement to commit murder ?

As for the breach of the peace charges, I did say that is a very minor 'catch-all' charge.

[les_taxi]

I will go to Bradford city centre,stand on a soap box and burn the Koran on Saturday afternoon I'm sure no-one will mind,I won't get arrested will I ?

Pull the other one

[les_taxi]

What you are saying is reminiscent of Enoch Powel's 'Rivers of Blood' speech in 1968. I thought, like many others, that was about to happen. That was 42 years ago.

He was looking to the future.

[Dedworth]

Dedworth. Sorry if I appear obtuse, but what offences are they committing ?

You said in post 28 you'd gone far enough with the discussion so why come back with the hair splitting ?

Danish Embassy - inciting racial hatred and soliciting murder

Luton Parade - using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress

Forget about soliciting murder the other charges would stick

[johncar54]

You said in post 28 you'd gone far enough with the discussion so why come back with the hair splitting ?

Danish Embassy - inciting racial hatred and soliciting murder

Luton Parade - using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress

Forget about soliciting murder the other charges would stick

Dedworth I thought you were using the examples as to why you thought the present case amounted to an offence. I was explaining that from what I had read it was very different.

[les_taxi]

No matter how we go round in circles here I'm saddened that I see so much apathy and lack of respect shown for our armed forces.

If people on this site think it's not a problem it's not that bad what they did then frankly I'm disgusted.

I'm not commenting on this post any more my totally passive neighbour has seen these comments and she can't believe what she has read,neither can I

I will be attending the parade on sunday if i see any muslim burning a poppy I will tell him what I think in no uncertain terms

[johncar54]

Lestaxi, I hope you do not think that I am condoning the actions of the demonstrators, I am not. I am just trying to explain why, in my opinion, no criminal offenses appear to have been committed.

However, I make no secret of the fact I do not believe our boys should not be there. I believe the decision to invade sovereign countries was wrong.

I am not surprised that people with sympathies for those countries should demonstrate their objections. I am also not surprised that they may see our invasion as contrary to the views they hold.

If one unjustly condemns someone, then that they may react, is not surprising.

We see the same sort of thing here. People are showing their disgust with the views of people who are demonstrating against something they hold as important/sacred.

[Dedworth]

Dedworth I thought you were using the examples as to why you thought the present case amounted to an offence. I was explaining that from what I had read it was very different.

I think you are attempting to wear me down but it won't work. Neither you nor I were at yesterdays poppy burning or last weeks Old Bailey hate mongering displays, nor were we at the Danish Embassy or Luton. We have both only seen the newspaper reports and video footage. I feel that there is enough similarity between the actions of the demonstraters at the recent events compared with the Embassy and Luton for arrests and charges to have been made. You don't, but I suspect that if you were serving in today's Met Police you would achieve very high rank.

My 12 year old son came back from school today and said "We've been talking about the poppy burning - why do we allow them to insult our traditions and soldiers, we wouldn't do it if we were in their countries?" I've had a busy day and not wishing to get involved in a long conversation the only response I could conjure up quickly was "this country has gone to the dogs". What would you have told him - something along the lines of "Don't worry about it son they are only a small minority, the vast majority of muslims disagree with them ?"

[subseastu]

I really don't understand all this PC rubbish about not wanting to offend non christians.

In Leicester, we have a very high % of Hindu's, Seikh's and Muslims, it has been that way for 30 or 40 years. To my knowledge there has never been any flag burning or racially/religiously motivated hate campaigns. Everyone leaves each other to get on with it, Christmas isn't banned, Divali isn't banned and nor is Eid. The lights and decorations go up for different festivals and no one bats an eyelid. Everyone respects each others customs and traditional celebrations. Surely this is the best way forward in cities with high immigrant populations?

JUst like the midlands to show the rest of the country how its done!! All living in peace and harmony

[grahamw48]

What this is all about is a thin edge of a great big wedge.
Some are just so blind they can't see it.

Over the past 40 years or so the very lucky, and usually middle-class do-gooders (most of whom through the efforts of our brave serviceman in WW2 have never in their lives PERSONALLY experienced conflict, suffering or the worst excesses of HUMAN NATURE ), have little by little, through their idealistic and naive concept of 'multi-culturalism' and now the new buzz word...'diversity', aided and abetted by certain immigrants who obviously have a vested interest, succeeded in creating a majority population who in law are now largely IMPOTENT.

This was always a recipe for civil conflict for so many reasons.

[subseastu]

im with you, just gotta put my underwear on first and do the house work

Manicure.......housework. See who wears the trousers in your house!!!

[johncar54]

Dedworth. I am not displaying my personal views but that of an experienced senior CID officer (albeit now some 20 years ago) regarding whether offences appeared to have been committed by the demonstration which started this thread. QUOTE "An insult to decency ........ Poppy-burning Muslim protesters mar Armistice Day commemorations as millions fall silent to remember war dead."



When the Argentine unlawfully invaded the Falklands the British on the whole held anti Argentinean views. That was not surprising.

When the UK with others illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, why should anyone be surprised that Muslims might think it was an action against the Muslim world ?

Who is to blame for our boys being killed? The Government at the time of the illegal invasions. Had commonsense prevailed, and the British puppy had not allowed itself to lead by Bush, we would not be discussing this now.

Also, as far as Afghanistan is concerned, we learnt nothing from history which displayed that subduing Afghanistan, which had defeated the British and later the Russians, was probably not achievable. This was especially so when we were supporting the USA who had been defeated in Vietnam after the French had suffered the same fate. Thus even ignoring the illegality it was senseless and stupid. That's why I am so angry that our boys are dying.

[Dedworth]

Dedworth. I am not displaying my personal views but that of an experienced senior CID officer (albeit now some 20 years ago) regarding whether offences appeared to have been committed by the demonstration which started this thread.

However, when the Argentine unlawfully invaded the Falklands the British on the whole held anti Argentinean views. That was not surprising.

When the UK with others illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, why should anyone be surprised that Muslims might think it was an action against the Muslim world ?

I'm not debating whether or not the invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan are illegal or not NATO hasn't been hauled up in the Hague or by the UN yet, how about Kosovo and bombing Serbia what's the legalities there ? Anyway that is not the issue but you seem to be defending the actions and non arrest of the demonstrators by virtue of these 2 invasions. Is it acceptable for me to go and burn down a local corner shop because it's (Muslim) owner was convicted of selling alcohol to 13 year olds ?

I posted this thread as yet another example of Muslim extremism in 2011 incidentally at a time when the inquest into the deaths of 52 innocents at the hands of Muslim terrorists is going on. My subsequent posts have questioned the states seeming unwillingness to arrest and prosecute these extremists.

I personally believe we became involved in Iraq and Afghanistan for the right reasons, these nations have subsequently shown themselves to be anarchic toilet states and we would be better off pulling the troops out. The extremists would then no longer be able to use our soldiers presence as an excuse for their activities.

The law is not being applied equally to all sections of the UK population - if I stood on a soap box in our local high street tomorrow and indulged in hate mongering shouts and waved offensive banners I would be arrested and charged.

[johncar54]

Sorry Dedworth but I seem to have encouraged you display your prejudices.

[Dedworth]

Sorry Dedworth but I seem to have encouraged you display your prejudices.

Prejudices ! Why don't you stop beating about the bush and call me a racist ? After all that's the usual PC apologist response to any criticism by the indigenous UK population of multiculturalism, islamic extremism, immigration policy, foreign criminals and prisoners etc.

I won't lose any sleep if you are too busy but you've conveniently not answered 3 questions I posed for you earlier,

a) Post 26 How would the Guardia Civil handle such an insulting incident
b) Post 47 What should I tell my son as to why people can freely abuse and insult British traditions and soldiers
c) Post 52 - is it acceptable for me to torch a lawbreakers shop because I was enraged over his crime ?

Have a good evening

[bornatbirth]

Prejudices ! Why don't you stop beating about the bush and call me a racist ? After all that's the usual PC apologist response to any criticism by the indigenous UK population of multiculturalism, islamic extremism, immigration policy, foreign criminals and prisoners etc.

I won't lose any sleep if you are too busy but you've conveniently not answered 3 questions I posed for you earlier,

a) Post 26 How would the Guardia Civil handle such an insulting incident
b) Post 47 What should I tell my son as to why people can freely abuse and insult British traditions and soldiers
c) Post 52 - is it acceptable for me to torch a lawbreakers shop because I was enraged over his crime ?

Have a good evening

what does your wife say about your ranting about foreigners in the uk

[joebloggs]

what does your wife say about your ranting about foreigners in the uk

i don't think dedworth wife goes around burning flags and poppies

i bet if you did that in the phils you would be banned for life , thats if you got out first with your life

[Dedworth]

what does your wife say about your ranting about foreigners in the uk

She and her friends are fine with it and like most Filipinos being hard working, tax paying, law abiders they are somewhat perplexed at this country's limp wristed attitude towards spongers, shirkers, shysters and criminals both native and foreign. How about your Mrs what's her opinion ?

[bornatbirth]

you cant be married to a foreigner and at the same time want others out

most of them are british and entitled to their opinions, so are we going to shoot them and cause more of a uproar thus making more of them angry, i prefer much more level headed person in charge and wont be voting dedworth in a hurry

[bornatbirth]

How about your Mrs what's her opinion ?

cant say that she is that bothered and much prefers shopping than discussing current issues

[Dedworth]

you cant be married to a foreigner and at the same time want others out

most of them are british and entitled to their opinions, so are we going to shoot them and cause more of a uproar thus making more of them angry, i prefer much more level headed person in charge and wont be voting dedworth in a hurry

It isn't as you put it I could be married to a Martian but I'm still entitled to my opinions on immigration and criminals.

I want the illegals and criminals deported and out immediately full stop, I want rigid but fair and proper controls put on all categories of immigration. As regards the "most of them are British" aspect - yes a lot of foreigners have obtained UK Passports either by marriage, settlement or asylum. With this category of "Britisher" I think there needs to be legislation passed where in the event of conviction of certain categories of crime or continuing ongoing criminality the authorities have the power to strip them of citizenship and deport them. That's my manifesto