Bank Charges

[walesrob]

You've probably read about what happened today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8376906.stm

Just been over to Money Saving Expert forum and I am very surprised to read the absolute hatred and general nastiness shown towards banks - some people calling banks bar stewards, all kinds of childish language being used. Some posters on that forum are advocating mass boycotts of banks, and even one went as far to suggest closing down one bank, therefore putting many more thousands out of work.

I'm stunned to learn some people will pay hundreds of pounds in UNauthorised overdraft fees. Why are they doing it? This suggests they cannot handle money properly, and for them to whine and moan "ITS UNFAIR" makes me laugh. (Life is UNFAIR - get over it) When you open an account at a bank, you agree to terms and conditions, this includes paying ££££'s if you break these T & C's. I've never been charged for late payments or going over an overdraft in the 22 years I've had a bank account. If your constantly living near your overdraft limit, you need to seriously sort out your finances, cut back on a few things.

What I find incredible is that people affected by this will say the banks will get richer, bank bosses will get more bonuses, and the poor will get poorer. Here's the news: LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS and the bank will get poorer, less bonuses for its bosses and you will get richer. Amazing huh?

Whats happened to something called "responsibilty"? Has it gone the same way as "common sense"? Oh, another word I hear too often is "rights", well, "rights" come with "responsibilties".

[Dedworth]

Whats happened to something called "responsibilty"? Has it gone the same way as "common sense"? Oh, another word I hear too often is "rights", well, "rights" come with "responsibilties".

You've hit the nail on the head

[triple5]

But don't the banks also need a lesson in responsibilty Irresponsible lending Letting people go over their overdraft limit. Never been charged myself, if I did I'd be thinking £35 fine is taking the

[walesrob]

But don't the banks also need a lesson in responsibilty Irresponsible lending Letting people go over their overdraft limit. Never been charged myself, if I did I'd be thinking £35 fine is taking the

You highlight the problem with the way people think. It's not the bank who is wrong, its the idiot taking out a credit card then maxing it out, then crying foul when the charges start coming. Banks and credit cards DONT force you to use their services, they DONT force you to go over the overdraft. I know, aint that weird, people taking responsibilty, who'd have thought.

[triple5]

If the banks wanted they could just cap that limit, no going over it, no charges. simple.

Just as well they won the case. They couldn't really afford to lose 3 billion a year.

[South-east boy]

The reason why banks and the economy got itself into the state it did was because they lent stupid amounts of money on mortgages and suchlike (quite often over 5 times their salary) and because of this we and the economy has had to pay the price. They had someone who had said to them that they can't continue lending like that, but what did they do? They fired him and then it was proved that he was right and if they'd listened to him, they wouldn't have got themselves into the state that they did. We are also paying the price again because even though interest rates are so low, they haven't followed suit with it with mortgages. So it's very hard for first-time buyers to get a mortgage and not so easy to get a very good rate even if you have one. It was a lot harder for me when I got a new one in August '08.

I was going to change my mortgage and pay the penalty fee of £3k (which would be added to the amount I owe) to get a better rate, but as they were still going down, I thought I'd wait a bit longer. Then a few months later I went to see what the difference would be and they had changed it to you now have to pay it upfront, therefor stopping many people changing their mortgage and getting a better deal as not so many people have a few £K of cash sitting around. So much for the mortgage advisors advice in getting a fixed-rate mortgage!

If you earn a good wage, then of course bank charges won't affect you, but if you don't earn so much, then there is more chance that they will. Yes, I agree that some people have been irresponsible, but we are in a recession, so things are even harder right now and one bank charge can totally screw someone that is living near the bread-line. Some people, as the company is not doing so well have things such as pay-cuts, no annual salary review, no overtime and no bonuses. If you used to get those regularly, then not getting them can seriously affect you (especially if it's most of those just mentioned) and how you live. Sure you can cut down on some things, but you need to live on more than bread and water. Rising fuel costs don't help either.

I haven't had bank charges for ages, but my wages have gone down a fair bit (no overtime, bonuses, salary review and lost out on 2 weeks pay) and my bills have gone up a fair bit (mainly due to being stuck on a high interest rate mortgage), which doesn't make things easy.

£30+ for going overdrawn at a bank by a few pence is ridiculous and certainly isn't going to help someone who is struggling. After I was made redundant 17 years ago, I remember they charged me because a cheque would have made me 26p overdrawn, then this cheque was presented again and they they charged me yet again. I was out of work, which I had told them and it was making things a lot worse!

I remember 3 or so years ago, I put a cheque in the bank a day before I sent a cheque for an item to cover for it. I though as it was sent after I had put the cheque in the bank, and it had to travel by post and then be taken to the bank all in I thought I'd be ok. No! The cheque was super-quick in the post and the place took it to the bank the same day and it was taken from my account all in one day! Meanwhile the cheque I put in the bank took a week longer to clear, so they charged me once and then twice when the cheque was re-presented! I had no idea that it took that long to go into my account. All this taking so many days to clear is rubbish as it doesn't actually take that long and other banks can do it in a couple of days, it's just their way of making interest on your money and making more on charges because they say it takes so long to clear.

Yes, when you open a bank account you have to sign the terms and conditions, but don't some of them change over the years? I signed up with Midland over 20 years ago and also they are now HSBC. Also what choice do you have? You have to have a bank account!

[Northerner]

I think the point of these court cases were of fairness, not of terms and conditions!

If I were to produce a service and include within the terms and conditions of the contract a clause that meant the customer had to pay £500 to cancel the service, I could argue that it is in the terms and conditions and anyone dumb enough to sign owed me £500 for cancelling. But the law might not see it that way! I would be governed by fair play rules..

And this whole fight has been over how fair are the banks.

But the impressive part was how they changed their stance during their defence. They did not argue that the charges were unfair, they argued that to be forced to repay years of unfair charges would put many of them out of business.

There is no such thing as free banking, it is a myth. But the current system charges those who are worst off with heavy fines for slight errors but if you can stay above water then they are okay with that... You get a free ride

[whiteraven]

I think the point of these court cases were of fairness, not of terms and conditions!

If I were to produce a service and include within the terms and conditions of the contract a clause that meant the customer had to pay £500 to cancel the service, I could argue that it is in the terms and conditions and anyone dumb enough to sign owed me £500 for cancelling. But the law might not see it that way! I would be governed by fair play rules..

And this whole fight has been over how fair are the banks.

But the impressive part was how they changed their stance during their defence. They did not argue that the charges were unfair, they argued that to be forced to repay years of unfair charges would put many of them out of business.

There is no such thing as free banking, it is a myth. But the current system charges those who are worst off with heavy fines for slight errors but if you can stay above water then they are okay with that... You get a free ride

ive always been good with my finances even when money was tight. for 3 months several years ago i was unemplyed without a penny coming in and direct debits going out, i was getting charged £70 per week for being overdrawn by £2 the argument wasnt to stop bank charges but to stop banks from robbing people blind which the supreme court has now given a green light to. weldone yours!!!

[johncar54]

For people who have trouble keeping track, then a Debit Card would seem to be the answer. No credit in account no out going payment, no overdraft payments.

[KeithD]

If you know you can't handle money plenty of bank accounts around that do not allow you to go overdrawn.

Actually the financial mess with the people and the banks is down to the government not controlling the financial enviroment the Exchequer of the time was supposed to do.... now who was that?

[Troubadour]

Yeah, you and the Bank agree to terms and conditions... and then the bank changes the terms and conditions. Originally money transfer UK to Philippines 10 Pounds - next day 20 pounds = 100% rise. In Philippines you had to keep a 5000 peso balance, next day it is up to 25.000.

The banks have behaved in the most thoroughly short-sighted and unruly manner for years. As soon as their schemes go pear-shaped they start hitting the poor saver.

The banks are filthy scum. Everyone laughed when the miners were sacked and the manufacturing base closed down in this country. Now the evil is coming for the white-collared workers... and you expect me to be sad. I am very sorry, but I don't give a fig about the arrogant bunch of toe-rags.

[KeithD]

Yeah, you and the Bank agree to terms and conditions... and then the bank changes the terms and conditions.

Which they have every right to do. If you don't agree you move banks... simple

Most banks in the Phil charge for depositing money .... and if you have a business account like me you pay for every single transaction which adds up to a hell of a lot of money each year.

[Troubadour]

Which they have every right to do. If you don't agree you move banks... simple

Most banks in the Phil charge for depositing money .... and if you have a business account like me you pay for every single transaction which adds up to a hell of a lot of money each year.

That;s exactly what I did ... Simple.

Questions should be raised about what rights the banks should have.

Soon there will be no cash - soon all employers will have to pay to bank accounts. When you have no choice about having a bank account, then the regulation of the banks should reflect the necessity.

Please don't talk about free markets and good deals - It is all rigged by them. They buy the politicians of both sides and get laws passed to give them rights they should not have.

[September]

What I find incredible is that people affected by this will say the banks will get richer, bank bosses will get more bonuses, and the poor will get poorer. Here's the news: LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS and the bank will get poorer, less bonuses for its bosses and you will get richer. Amazing huh?

Whats happened to something called "responsibilty"? Has it gone the same way as "common sense"? Oh, another word I hear too often is "rights", well, "rights" come with "responsibilties".

Very well said Mod Rob, I was thiking my poor country, and people keep moaning how life is tough but ask how many chiildren they had 6,7,5
Responsibilities come on it self

[fred]

Most banks in the Phil charge for depositing money

I have not come across this personally..Which bank does it most?

[September]

In Philippines you had to keep a 5000 peso balance, next day it is up to 25.000.

We call it maintaning balance, if you want to use it to avoid charges, withdraw it and close the account, so they wont charges you for failing the minimum maintaning amount..

Bank in the Philippines never charge if your trying to open an account with them nor depositing an account

Metrobank had interbranch deposit charge, yes 50 pesos if your in province and you will deposit an account which based in manila, oh well as well as BDO now they had charge for interbranch deposit

[bornatbirth]

i have never been overdrawn myself but i think the banks are allowed by the goverment to do pretty much what they like?

i have had a credit card for a long time and payed it off in full every month but when i stopped paying it off in full,my credit limit went up and everytime i stopped the direct debit to pay it off in full my limit as gone up.....i have never asked for this...do you think they want me to use it and pay a lot of interest paying it back my limit is now more than i earn

whats that word responsibility

[KeithD]

I have not come across this personally..Which bank does it most?

Philippine Bank charges for deposits from out of the country around 10%

[Troubadour]

We call it maintaning balance, if you want to use it to avoid charges, withdraw it and close the account, so they wont charges you for failing the minimum maintaning amount..

Like I said, I did change the account.

[Troubadour]

Very well said Mod Rob, I was thiking my poor country, and people keep moaning how life is tough but ask how many chiildren they had 6,7,5
Responsibilities come on it self

Actually you are quite wrong here. I am a trained social scientist and know a bit about this. If a country increases in prosperity, the birthrate drops. A high birth rate is a product of poverty. It is not true that a high birth rate causes poverty, the reverse is true.

The working person prosperity of the UK is largely a post-war phenomenon. I have one brother, my mother had two brothers, but her mother had 6 sisters and a brother, and my mother's father had 6 brothers and one sister. This is a phenomenon true all over the world. Poverty decreases, birthrate drops - Poverty increases, birthrate rises

[Alan]

I must hang my head in shame. I got into a lot of financial trouble with my business. I owed lots of money when I left the UK - and, thanks to circumstances, I still do.

Send us a cake with a file inside guys when I get back to UK.

Al.

[el capitan]

When all banks have the same policies on charges where are you meant to take your business to if you disagree? And its not just about being overdrawn, if you bounce a DD due to not having enough money in your account you get the 38 pound charge for a computer taking a split second to say NO.

And people keep harping on to the old days, but 40 years ago you would have been paid weekly, your bills would have been paid by you when you had the money, You would have lived week to week, not month to month, and it was virtually impossible for you to go overdrawn. the system of automated payments and monthly pay has actually created a problem/phenominen that did not exist, and the banks have taken advantage of it.

[South-east boy]

Actually you are quite wrong here. I am a trained social scientist and know a bit about this. If a country increases in prosperity, the birthrate drops. A high birth rate is a product of poverty. It is not true that a high birth rate causes poverty, the reverse is true.

The working person prosperity of the UK is largely a post-war phenomenon. I have one brother, my mother had two brothers, but her mother had 6 sisters and a brother, and my mother's father had 6 brothers and one sister. This is a phenomenon true all over the world. Poverty decreases, birthrate drops - Poverty increases, birthrate rises

But does what you say only work with countries that are more wealthy and have had ups & downs rather than countries that are far less wealthy or even poor? Not all countries with a higher % of poor people have large familes do they? It seems to also depend upon the religion and trend/culture of the country.

The trouble is, is how is a country with a high % of poor people and unemployed (compared to say the UK) going to become properous, especially if the population is increasing dramatically? It seems quite scarey to me how the PHilippines could be in 10-20 years time with a dramatic increase in the population and with less Fillipinos being able to work abroad due to other countries cutting down on immigration. How best to sort the countries problems, is not easy, but it could certainly do with more industry etc.

[keithAngel]

You highlight the problem with the way people think. It's not the bank who is wrong, its the idiot taking out a credit card then maxing it out, then crying foul when the charges start coming. Banks and credit cards DONT force you to use their services, they DONT force you to go over the overdraft. I know, aint that weird, people taking responsibilty, who'd have thought.

I think it was the banks Rob who had a "unauthorised overdraught " recently that we all got stuck with perhaps we should all send them weekly letters demanding £30 till its paid back I certainly wasnt asked

[somebody]

You've probably read about what happened today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8376906.stm

Just been over to Money Saving Expert forum and I am very surprised to read the absolute hatred and general nastiness shown towards banks - some people calling banks bar stewards, all kinds of childish language being used. Some posters on that forum are advocating mass boycotts of banks, and even one went as far to suggest closing down one bank, therefore putting many more thousands out of work.

I'm stunned to learn some people will pay hundreds of pounds in UNauthorised overdraft fees. Why are they doing it? This suggests they cannot handle money properly, and for them to whine and moan "ITS UNFAIR" makes me laugh. (Life is UNFAIR - get over it) When you open an account at a bank, you agree to terms and conditions, this includes paying ££££'s if you break these T & C's. I've never been charged for late payments or going over an overdraft in the 22 years I've had a bank account. If your constantly living near your overdraft limit, you need to seriously sort out your finances, cut back on a few things.

What I find incredible is that people affected by this will say the banks will get richer, bank bosses will get more bonuses, and the poor will get poorer. Here's the news: LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS and the bank will get poorer, less bonuses for its bosses and you will get richer. Amazing huh?

Whats happened to something called "responsibilty"? Has it gone the same way as "common sense"? Oh, another word I hear too often is "rights", well, "rights" come with "responsibilties".

While I agree with you to a degree that people should take responsibilty for their own actions.

Banks have pounced on people I have known who were good and sensible customers of banks. Incidents which were out of their control and they have no sympathy. While we were all supposed to have our lives affected by their mismanagment. Yes we had to bail the banks out to save the country and system but many of the people at the top should have paid with their jobs and freedom.

But I do aggree although I have a decent job as does the missus we live in a place we can afford while saving up for our next place so we dont need a large loan. Like Born at birth I was untill recently when the Companies were told not to do it having huge credit limits offered to me

With Dubai about to fall over and rumours of plenty of other bubbles starting and looking like they burst in China and India this time. With people still speculating on Propety even though its a huge risk

Im sure all the careful savers will as usual suffer for the people who live not so frugally

[IainBusby]

You've probably read about what happened today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8376906.stm

Just been over to Money Saving Expert forum and I am very surprised to read the absolute hatred and general nastiness shown towards banks - some people calling banks bar stewards, all kinds of childish language being used. Some posters on that forum are advocating mass boycotts of banks, and even one went as far to suggest closing down one bank, therefore putting many more thousands out of work.

I'm stunned to learn some people will pay hundreds of pounds in UNauthorised overdraft fees. Why are they doing it? This suggests they cannot handle money properly, and for them to whine and moan "ITS UNFAIR" makes me laugh. (Life is UNFAIR - get over it) When you open an account at a bank, you agree to terms and conditions, this includes paying ££££'s if you break these T & C's. I've never been charged for late payments or going over an overdraft in the 22 years I've had a bank account. If your constantly living near your overdraft limit, you need to seriously sort out your finances, cut back on a few things.

What I find incredible is that people affected by this will say the banks will get richer, bank bosses will get more bonuses, and the poor will get poorer. Here's the news: LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS and the bank will get poorer, less bonuses for its bosses and you will get richer. Amazing huh?

Whats happened to something called "responsibilty"? Has it gone the same way as "common sense"? Oh, another word I hear too often is "rights", well, "rights" come with "responsibilties".

I agree, if people can't be bothered to read the small print then that's their own fault.

[IainBusby]

Soon there will be no cash - soon all employers will have to pay to bank accounts. When you have no choice about having a bank account, then the regulation of the banks should reflect the necessity.

There used to be a 19th century law called the truckers act which was repealed by the Thatcher government in the 1980's. It was introduced to stop companies paying in tokens that could only be spent at the company store or paying in kind with goods and services.

The reason the tories repealed it was because the law said that all workers had the right to be paid in "coin of the realm" and the trade unions used this law to stop companies forcing people to have their wages paid by cheque or directly into a bank account.

Seems that wherever you find problems you'll find "maggie wos here" scribbled on the wall.

[johncar54]

And people keep harping on to the old days, but 40 years ago you would have been paid weekly, your bills would have been paid by you when you had the money, You would have lived week to week, not month to month, and it was virtually impossible for you to go overdrawn. the system of automated payments and monthly pay has actually created a problem/phenominen that did not exist, and the banks have taken advantage of it.

I opened my first bank account in 1959. I was aged 19. At that time for anyone to open an account one needed references. Thus only people whom the manger was satisfied could be trusted were allowed to open accounts.

Although computers had not been invented, issuing cheques could cause an account to be overdrawn or the cheques being returned as unpaid. However, in those days the manager knew and respected his customers. On just one occasion a cheque was presented on my account when funds were insufficient, but the manager allowed the over payment. I doubt whether a computer would do that now !!!!

So maybe the 'good old days' did exist and at times were better !!!!

[triple5]

I opened my first bank account in 1959. I was aged 19. At that time for anyone to open an account one needed references. Thus only people whom the manger was satisfied could be trusted were allowed to open accounts.

Although computers had not been invented, issuing cheques could cause an account to be overdrawn or the cheques being returned as unpaid. However, in those days the manager knew and respected his customers. On just one occasion a cheque was presented on my account when funds were insufficient, but the manager allowed the over payment. I doubt whether a computer would do that now !!!!

So maybe the 'good old days' did exist and at times were better !!!!

Times have certainly changed then. About 3 years ago a mate of mine applied for an unsecured loan for £10k. He'd been out of work for more than a year and just entered his last employers details on the form and hoped for the best. Approved within 48 hours.

A far cry from needing references to just open an account.

[johncar54]

Times have certainly changed then. About 3 years ago a mate of mine applied for an unsecured loan for £10k. He'd been out of work for more than a year and just entered his last employers details on the form and hoped for the best. Approved within 48 hours.

A far cry from needing references to just open an account.

I wonder why the bank are in trouble ...................... ?????? .............
No I can't think of a single reason !!!!!