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rl_bright78

1st January 2006, 23:55

Hi All

Wondering if i could get some advice. I've read other posts but none seem to cover my questions, let me know if i've missed something tho - i might just need pointing in the right direction!

My sister has lived and worked in the Philippines for the past 6 years for a UK charity, fostering 3 street children & living in tough conditions in Ozamis City devoting her life to the people & country, she is fluent in Cebuano & while working she has met & married a local Filipino Man. They now live together & are jointly fostering (in the process of adopting) the 3 children.

They have made their lives in the philippines and at present have no plans to come to the UK to live. However they would like to visit the UK as a couple.....

My BIL applied for a visa before they were married last year which was turned down. Recently he applied for another vias, to come for a 4 week visit over xmas. this was also turned down. As far as i can tell we have given the embassy all the info they need. My other sister & her husband are sponsoring them (they are wealthy), & have sent bank statements, proof of income, affadavits etc etc. and the charity they both now work for have put up the money for the air fare & sent a letter of support, plus we have also sent countless other letters of support from family members & close friends who know my BIL.

So far the consulates reasons for not giving him the visa are that 1. they do not believe that my sister who is sponsoring him is really going to! 2. They don't believe the charity would want to pay for his trip when he is only paid $600 per month salary.

We are looking for advice on what else we can do to improve his chances of getting a visa, they are planning to appeal the decision so i would appresiate any tips on how to do this in the best way & any other information we could add to the application to make it stronger.

Many thanks Rachel Bright

Admin

2nd January 2006, 09:34

So far the consulates reasons for not giving him the visa are that 1. they do not believe that my sister who is sponsoring him is really going to! 2. They don't believe the charity would want to pay for his trip when he is only paid $600 per month salary.

This would come under the UK immigration control law 213B.Section 33.(a);
"If everything is in order, you have the right to refuse just to be a complete ...., and throw misery on a nice respectable family"

Bet you missed that one huh!! B)

I would say the underlying problem they are getting at is he has not really got any proof of savings himself, and doesn't really have a solid commitment to return to the Phil once he is in the UK, even though you know he will.

How you get around that, I don't know, but someone else will be along with more info for you today. :)

ginapeterb

2nd January 2006, 10:58

I will have a look at this later when I get back from work, see if I can give an opinion,

Best wishes

Eljohno

2nd January 2006, 13:34

ginapeterb

2nd January 2006, 14:22

Originally posted by rl_bright78@Jan 1 2006, 10:55 PM
Hi All

Wondering if i could get some advice. I've read other posts but none seem to cover my questions, let me know if i've missed something tho - i might just need pointing in the right direction!

My sister has lived and worked in the Philippines for the past 6 years for a UK charity, fostering 3 street children & living in tough conditions in Ozamis City devoting her life to the people & country, she is fluent in Cebuano & while working she has met & married a local Filipino Man. They now live together & are jointly fostering (in the process of adopting) the 3 children.

They have made their lives in the philippines and at present have no plans to come to the UK to live. However they would like to visit the UK as a couple.....

My BIL applied for a visa before they were married last year which was turned down. Recently he applied for another vias, to come for a 4 week visit over xmas. this was also turned down. As far as i can tell we have given the embassy all the info they need. My other sister & her husband are sponsoring them (they are wealthy), & have sent bank statements, proof of income, affadavits etc etc. and the charity they both now work for have put up the money for the air fare & sent a letter of support, plus we have also sent countless other letters of support from family members & close friends who know my BIL.

So far the consulates reasons for not giving him the visa are that 1. they do not believe that my sister who is sponsoring him is really going to! 2. They don't believe the charity would want to pay for his trip when he is only paid $600 per month salary.

We are looking for advice on what else we can do to improve his chances of getting a visa, they are planning to appeal the decision so i would appresiate any tips on how to do this in the best way & any other information we could add to the application to make it stronger.

Many thanks Rachel Bright

Quoted post

Hello Rachel for your post, let me first take a look at what you said, if the facts are right ? correct me if I am wrong in a further post.

1. Your Sister is married to a Filipino.

2. He applied for a tourist visa prior to the marriage ?

3. That visa was refused.

4. Recent your Brother in Law applied for a tourist visa to make a trip to UK over the xmas period.

5. That visa was also denied ?

6. Your Brother in Laws Charity have paid for his air ticket, and pledged support.

7. Your other Sister and her husband has also pledged support and are wealthy enough to support your Brother in Law whilst he is visiting UK.

Ok, based on the following information I would give you the reason why your Brother In law is being declined a visa.

Firstly the Entry Clearance Officer has to be satisfied that their are compelling reasons for your Brother in Law to return to the Philippines at the end of his vist, the fact that he is married to a British Citizen is not valid, since your sister is not presently settled in the United Kingdom.

If your Sister was presently settled in the United Kingdom, she would need to demonstrate that she is well capable of supporting your brother in law, since she is in the Philippines and has been so for a number of years, she sadly does not meet the rules, by simply being a British Passport holder.

Secondly, your brother in law is applying for a visitors visa, visitors visa's have seperate rules to fiancee and spouse visas, the rules vary and have one distiinct difference and that is this.

For a visitors visa, the applicant visitor, cannot recieve guarantees of support from anyone in the United Kingdom, therefore your wealthy sister and her husband are not allowed to pledge support, the applicant must demonstrate adequate funds in their own bank account and compelling reasons to return, such as a bona fida employment status, with savings, probably in excess of 500,000 Php, A Visitor is not allowed to receive guarantees from anyone in the UK, and UK Relatives may not give guarantees of sponsorshop or to guarantee a paticular applicants return to the citizens country at the end of their stay.

The Entry Clearance officer, no doubt refused the visa, because of the following points.

1. The Applicant has failed to satisfy the requirements on adequate funds to allow bona fida tourist status.

2. The Applicant has failed to demonstrate that their are compelling reasons for the applicant to return to his country of citizenship.

All of these letters that are being sent, are to no avail, sadly, the rules do not cater for these letters, I think unless your brother in law, can demonstate adequate savings, and compelling reasons to return to the Philippines, he will continue to be denied a visa.

You have the right of appeal, but I wouldnt bother with that, this takes time, and will result in your brother in law loosing the appeal, unless their is information to hand, which the Entry Clearance Officer dit not take into consideration.

Im sorry I cant be more positive, but to be honest, youre not showing me anything to be positive about, unless your sister moves back to UK and gets a job, and then applies for a Settlement visa for your brother in law, there is no where to go.

As always I tell it like it is ?

Pete

walesrob

2nd January 2006, 14:53

Originally posted by ginapeterb@Jan 2 2006, 01:22 PM

As always I tell it like it is ?

Pete

Quoted post

Rachel, having read your post, I can only back up what Pete says 100%. I really can't see any other way out of this situation - I was going to suggest application for a settlement visa, but that would not work if the intention is for staying in Philippines.

rl_bright78

2nd January 2006, 20:13

John - Yes it is Emily & Tim!!!!! That is so funny! I just thought of posting on this board on the total off chance that someone might have some advice. I'll let them know that i had contact with you. That's amazing!

Hi Everyone, thanks so much for all your help.

It seems like a total non starter then! How about if he was given (!) some savings & then re-applied in a few months. Also doesn't the fact that they long term foster 3 children in Ozamis count for anything? and he has a settled job, employed by a UK charity? How else can we prove he will be coming back?

This is totally mental! The fact they don't want to settle in the UK seems to count against them. My sis has already lost all her rights to free health care, dental care etc when she's home.

My family have been working in the Philippines for 15 years+, the people of Ozamis are like our family & we've been always been welcomed there. Why can't the UK do the same for our new BIL??

Anyway any other comments or advice would be great - thanks! Rachel.

Admin

2nd January 2006, 20:19

You may also have problems with adopted children in the future if they need to come to the UK, my guess is the rules are a minefield on that one, and to simplify it, the Brit embassy in the Phil just stamp DENY on it. Saves them doing any real work before tea break!!

Bunging money in a bank account in his name, and waiting 3-6 months, would probably get around one failure, but then that does not prove he will be returning.

Other option is to settle in the UK, with the wife going backwards and forwards to continue the charity work. 3+ years in this country he can get British Citizenship, unless they've changed the rules on that as well :rolleyes:

rl_bright78

2nd January 2006, 20:30

Okay. One down, one to go! How about shed loads of UK publicity? We could get a few papers & our local MP on to their case. Does that kind of pressure work?

deepete

2nd January 2006, 22:30

I have also had experiance of a brother-in law being refused a visa as recently as 3 weeks ago. But he is young and single so I suppose we half expected it, although I have sponsored 2 other brothers, a sister and Mum and Dad in the past and all have returned home to the P.I. within the 6month visa period. This time he is being sponsored by my English B.I.L. ex para with 20 years service and dying of cancer. His MP has taken up the case, it may do the trick but nothing is certain.

I dont think you will have any joy with the newspapers though.

But I have a question, why is the charity paying for his ticket? I never give to charities as I believe they waste most of the money and this seems to prove the point.I have never had an employer that has paid for my holiday. $600 a month is also top of the tree salary for the Philippines, my guess is someone at the embasssy seems to think that something is not quite right. If its a British charity i would definately keep the newspapers out of it.

rl_bright78

2nd January 2006, 23:34

Doh! Salary is $100 per month not $600. Glad you pointed that out. I'm sure BIL would be very happy if he realised i'd uped his salary by 600%!!! oops!

Admin

3rd January 2006, 10:04

A lot of overseas charities cover flight costs for spouses to/from home, etc. Part of the package. If I worked for a company who said, you have to go work in Indonesia for 2 years, and your wife has to pay for herself, I'd tell them where to go chraity or not.

It is up to the charity that employs its workforce to ensure they are kept in close contact to their family.

deepete

3rd January 2006, 12:26

Yes Keith, I know that, my daughter and son in law are embassy staff in Delhi and have the same arrangements, but this man has not got a right of abode outside of the P.I. yet, and Rachel`s sister has lost her health benifit rights for being out of the country longer than 6 months/year, whatever it now is.

If the British embassy are denying him a visa it would appear as if they dont recognise the marriage, sounds awkward, maybe they should try to get a face to face interview as a couple.They could try and visit a few other countries nearer to the P.I. to show consistency.

Eljohno

3rd January 2006, 13:41

Originally posted by deepete@Jan 2 2006, 09:30 PM

But I have a question, why is the charity paying for his ticket? I never give to charities as I believe they waste most of the money and this seems to prove the point.I have never had an employer that has paid for my holiday. $600 a month is also top of the tree salary for the Philippines, my guess is someone at the embasssy seems to think that something is not quite right. If its a British charity i would definately keep the newspapers out of it.

Quoted post

Hi pete,
the charity is a british one for sure as i know the couple that are trying to get the visa.I also realise that there are charities out there who are scammers but i know this charity well and they are the real deal as i have visited the Children's home they have built and also the schooling program. It is a shame that things are being made so difficult for this couple to get a visa as i have met the 3 children that they have and there is no way that they will not return to the Philippines. And just to think i am only applying for my settlement visa now agghh!!

John

rl_bright78

3rd January 2006, 15:13

Originally posted by deepete@Jan 3 2006, 11:26 AM

If the British embassy are denying him a visa it would appear as if they dont recognise the marriage, sounds awkward, maybe they should try to get a face to face interview as a couple.They could try and visit a few other countries nearer to the P.I. to show consistency.

Quoted post

We're planning to club together to get them to HK for a short trip. Like you said hopefully this will help build up some trust.

Any idea how they can get an interview as a couple?

My sister & BIL know a number of other missionaries who have managed to get tourist visas with alot less information than they have given the embassy. Speaking to them last night, i think we've decided to go to appeal with a large wave of additional letter to show how mich support they have, plus one from our local MP who has pledged his support. The charity are sending a letter to explain that the flight to UK is part of thier contract. Hopefully the fact that they can give so much additional info will count for something. Plus a letter from Phil. immigration showing my sis is applying for permenent residency.

We are very commited to making this happen, however long it takes!

emilyrosal

3rd January 2006, 16:06

Originally posted by rl_bright78@Jan 3 2006, 10:13 PM
We're planning to club together to get them to HK for a short trip. Like you said hopefully this will help build up some trust.

Any idea how they can get an interview as a couple?
My sister & BIL know a number of other missionaries who have managed to get tourist visas with alot less information than they have given the embassy. Speaking to them last night, i think we've decided to go to appeal with a large wave of additional letter to show how mich support they have, plus one from our local MP who has pledged his support. The charity are sending a letter to explain that the flight to UK is part of thier contract. Hopefully the fact that they can give so much additional info will count for something. Plus a letter from Phil. immigration showing my sis is applying for permenent residency.

We are very commited to making this happen, however long it takes!

Quoted post

HI this is Emily......wife of "the brother-in-law"

Thanks everyone for all the advice. It was a big disappointment being refused a visa for my husband but we're not giving up. We have our appeal at the end of the month. The paperwork that the Embassy gave me dosnt actually tell you anything!
It just talkes about filling in the application form and choosing between a oral hearing or a written one. Any adviice on this?

The resons given for my husbands refusal where because they couldnt find a valid reason why the charity would pay for his airfare. I would like to point out that my salary is payed by the charity, but i think you would all agree $200 is a minimum wage. Futhermore EVERY penny of that money comes in through directly from people who sponsor me personally. In no way is it taken our of money from generall donations!!! Just to clear that up.......

However my husband owns his own car, motorbike we rent a 4 bedroom house that we have paied rent on untill the end of April. He also owns one hectar of land. My husbands family is very wealthy and we gave the embassy evidence of this also.

There 2nd problem was that me visa extention was only untill Jan and is not a perminant residence visa. The embassy asked for my passport and they could see that for the past 4 years i have always renewed my visa the same way when i enter the phill. However my immigration officer is willing to give give me another 6 month extention on my visa and has written a letter of explantion that i am in the process of attaing my residency here.

Any other info of things i can do to would be great. Our local mayor is also writting a letter for me and also the local DSWD (social services) where i work with running projects with teenage mums and street kids.

Thanks for all the help........nice to know people care!!!

John, how you doing? small world! Rhea is looking amazing but really missing u! hurry up and get back........she burst into tears last time i saw her coz she missed you so much!!!!

emilyrosal

3rd January 2006, 16:45

Hi Pete,

I would like to point our to you that ALL money covering my salary and flights for myself and Tim are all peyed out of money donated by sponsors specificaly for that reason! We have sponsors, mostly long time friends of mine or family who have standing orders with the charity set up just so i can get paied. Our charity payes minimum as poss on overheads. But charity workers do deserved to get payied just as much as anyone else coz charity work dosnt happen on its own....we have to make it happen. You might be "deeppete" but you come off as not so deep to me!!!

I mean even if a charity did pay me a salary of $600 (which it dosn't) is the work i do not worth it.

deepete

3rd January 2006, 17:06

[QUOTE] You might be "deeppete" but you come off as not so deep to me!!!

Thanks for your comments

ginapeterb

3rd January 2006, 18:20

Originally posted by emilyrosal@Jan 3 2006, 03:06 PM
HI this is Emily......wife of "the brother-in-law"

Thanks everyone for all the advice. It was a big disappointment being refused a visa for my husband but we're not giving up. We have our appeal at the end of the month. The paperwork that the Embassy gave me dosnt actually tell you anything!
It just talkes about filling in the application form and choosing between a oral hearing or a written one. Any adviice on this?

The resons given for my husbands refusal where because they couldnt find a valid reason why the charity would pay for his airfare. I would like to point out that my salary is payed by the charity, but i think you would all agree $200 is a minimum wage. Futhermore EVERY penny of that money comes in through directly from people who sponsor me personally. In no way is it taken our of money from generall donations!!! Just to clear that up.......

However my husband owns his own car, motorbike we rent a 4 bedroom house that we have paied rent on untill the end of April. He also owns one hectar of land. My husbands family is very wealthy and we gave the embassy evidence of this also.

There 2nd problem was that me visa extention was only untill Jan and is not a perminant residence visa. The embassy asked for my passport and they could see that for the past 4 years i have always renewed my visa the same way when i enter the phill. However my immigration officer is willing to give give me another 6 month extention on my visa and has written a letter of explantion that i am in the process of attaing my residency here.
Any other info of things i can do to would be great. Our local mayor is also writting a letter for me and also the local DSWD (social services) where i work with running projects with teenage mums and street kids.

Thanks for all the help........nice to know people care!!!

John, how you doing? small world! Rhea is looking amazing but really missing u! hurry up and get back........she burst into tears last time i saw her coz she missed you so much!!!!

Quoted post

Hello Emily,

Thanks for coming on to the Forum, its great to see you looking in on us from the Philippines, and both Gina (my Asawa) and I..plus my other colleagues on this forum, Rob and Keith and our respective asawas, would very much sympathise with your dillema, trust me when I tell you we do care here about situations such as yours, what you will find with us, is that we spend alot of time trying to offer suggestions on how you can achieve the result you want with our good freinds in Manila, the Entry Clearance Officers, at some stage in the past, many of us have had the Royal run around of all time, I can speak from experience with that, so can Rob, and Keith and many others, so trust me when I tell you, we know exactly what you are going through.

What we do tend to deal with here on the Forum tend to be Spouse and Fiancee visa situations, although tourist visa applications are increasingly becoming part of our portfolio here at FilipinoUK, my own website is really geared up to helping British male/females who are presently settled here in the UK, to get through the visa process at our Embassy in Manila.

I understand from reading between the lines, that you work in the Philippines for a registered Charity, and your husband is a Filipino, I wouldnt get to much into the charity situation, its of no consequence to us, or any of our business how much you are paid, or what the basis on which your salary is paid, what is most important is that your husband continues to be denied entry to UK as a bona fida tourist.

If you saw my earlier post, I wrote a peice about why I think the visa is being continuously denied, which is here, perhaps you can glance through this before we go any further.

1. Your Sister is married to a Filipino.

2. He applied for a tourist visa prior to the marriage ?

3. That visa was refused.

4. Recent your Brother in Law applied for a tourist visa to make a trip to UK over the xmas period.

5. That visa was also denied ?

6. Your Brother in Laws Charity have paid for his air ticket, and pledged support.

7. Your other Sister and her husband has also pledged support and are wealthy enough to support your Brother in Law whilst he is visiting UK.

Ok, based on the following information I would give you the reason why your Brother In law is being declined a visa.

Firstly the Entry Clearance Officer has to be satisfied that their are compelling reasons for your Brother in Law to return to the Philippines at the end of his vist, the fact that he is married to a British Citizen is not valid, since your sister is not presently settled in the United Kingdom.

If your Sister was presently settled in the United Kingdom, she would need to demonstrate that she is well capable of supporting your brother in law, since she is in the Philippines and has been so for a number of years, she sadly does not meet the rules, by simply being a British Passport holder.

Secondly, your brother in law is applying for a visitors visa, visitors visa's have seperate rules to fiancee and spouse visas, the rules vary and have one distiinct difference and that is this.

For a visitors visa, the applicant visitor, cannot recieve guarantees of support from anyone in the United Kingdom, therefore your wealthy sister and her husband are not allowed to pledge support, the applicant must demonstrate adequate funds in their own bank account and compelling reasons to return, such as a bona fida employment status, with savings, probably in excess of 500,000 Php, A Visitor is not allowed to receive guarantees from anyone in the UK, and UK Relatives may not give guarantees of sponsorshop or to guarantee a paticular applicants return to the citizens country at the end of their stay.

The Entry Clearance officer, no doubt refused the visa, because of the following points.

1. The Applicant has failed to satisfy the requirements on adequate funds to allow bona fida tourist status.

2. The Applicant has failed to demonstrate that their are compelling reasons for the applicant to return to his country of citizenship.

All of these letters that are being sent, are to no avail, sadly, the rules do not cater for these letters, I think unless your brother in law, can demonstate adequate savings, and compelling reasons to return to the Philippines, he will continue to be denied a visa.

You have the right of appeal, but I wouldnt bother with that, this takes time, and will result in your brother in law loosing the appeal, unless their is information to hand, which the Entry Clearance Officer dit not take into consideration.

Im sorry I cant be more positive, but to be honest, youre not showing me anything to be positive about, unless your sister moves back to UK and gets a job, and then applies for a Settlement visa for your brother in law, there is no where to go.

to take this a stage further, Entry Clearance Officers make summary judgements at the overseas mission on whether to grant a visa based on 2 major rules.

The 1st one is balance of probability.

You can read a litle about this on my own personal webiste for British nationals at

http://www.british-filipino.com/britemb1.html

just load this page and follow the subject matter through 3 pages, there is also a help page on that thread at http://www.british-filipino.com/visarefusals.html

Although I suspect, there will be little comfort from this, the 2nd rule, is compelling reasons to return to the host country.

This is because they may consider that your husband has no reasons to return to the Philippines, even though he may own land, which you have clearly shown, Im even suprised that the Embassy gave you the right to appeal this decision.

Please forgive me if Im teaching you to suck eggs, but just check to ensure you have the right of appeal, as certain types of visas do not attract the right of appeal, for example, the only ones are normally to visit relatives, such as Mother, Father, husband wife, etc, in this case your husband is with you in the Philippines, and although you might be applying for residency in the Philippines, that is not much of interest to the Entry Clearance Officer since you are entitled to enter the United Kingdom as much as you please, technically you may not be classed as a resident and felt you may have lost your right to NHS Treatment, I doubt very much whether in practice that would be applied.

If you have the right of appeal in your husbands case, even though a member of parliament may support you, his or her letter generally will be placed on the file if their is an appeal, whether it will have any merit in an appeal decision, is not something we have any experience of, for an appeal to be successful, the ajudicators who sit in appeals, who by the way are generally members of the judiciary or practicing Immigration lawyers, will have to see that their is compelling evidence not seen at the time of the visa application that might be taken into consideration, to do this, they must have a written set of reasons from the Entry Clearance officer why he or she felt that to issue a visa was not appropriate, the easiest one for them is generally considered to be "The applicant has not demonstrated compelling reasons for them to return home."

All appeals are handled in the United Kingdom by the Asylum and Immigration appeals tribunal, and you can obtain all the necessary information from my website at

http://www.british-filipino.com/visarefusals.html

on this page, their is also links to what you can do in the event of a refusal, and other organizations that can help you, I would suggest you get in touch with the Immigration Advisory service in the UK, they can take up your case, and the information for this is on my page also, appeals can be very expensive, somewhere in the region of £2000.00 for an appeal to be lodged, you mention that you were asked if you wanted to have a written or oral appeal, since you are in the Philippines you might wish to opt for a written appeal, however at an oral appeal, you may have the chance to speak as does your representative.

Secondly, you might wish to know, that appeals can take from 8 to 12 months to be heard at the AIAT in the UK, this does see rather a long wait for this type of visa, when I last spoke to an Immigration lawyer, who is familiar with this, they said relative appeals are about 6 months at present, you may feel that an appeal is your only option, sadly Entry CLearance Officers so seem to act arbitrarily in these matters, but I wish I could help more with this for you, I cannot think of anything else you can do, but I hope this helps to explain maybe why this is happening.

Please feel free to ask any questions if you want anything answered, the one thing you wont get from me, is flippant comments.

Best wishes

Peter and Gina

deepete

21st February 2006, 10:36

I was woken at 5am this morning with some very good news, my 20 year old brother-in-law has just been granted a visitors visa for a 6 month visit to the U.K.

He was refused his first application before Christmas because of confusion over his status as a visitor or worker and we decided not to appeal but make a fresh application and all went well.

My thanks to Graham at the British Embassy, for his consideration of the application.

Got to do some work now arranging a ticket.

Peter

By the way Pete, part of your answer above is wrong. In all our applications for a family visit we have sponsored and sent proof of adequate funds to support the visitor and this goes in with the application.

walesrob

21st February 2006, 12:12

Originally posted by deepete@Feb 21 2006, 09:36 AM

My thanks to Graham at the British Embassy, for his consideration of the application.

Peter

Quoted post

I seem to recall that Elsa was interviewed by this Graham chappie, she said he was very nice, didn't give her a hard time. How about they get rid of that Lewin monster and put Graham in charge :lol: I'm sure Pete will agree :unsure:

Eljohno

21st February 2006, 12:28

Originally posted by walesrob@Feb 21 2006, 11:12 AM
I seem to recall that Elsa was interviewed by this Graham chappie, she said he was very nice, didn't give her a hard time. How about they get rid of that Lewin monster and put Graham in charge :lol: I'm sure Pete will agree :unsure:

Quoted post

Hi Rob,
who is this Lewin person i have heard a few of you talk about? I hope if Rhea has to go for an interview that she gets someone else :unsure:

The woman i met at the consulate in Cebu was very serious and you could tell she was not ever going to die laughing, but thankfully by the end of our chat she had lightened up a bit...

John

walesrob

21st February 2006, 13:11

Originally posted by Eljohno@Feb 21 2006, 11:28 AM
Hi Rob,
who is this Lewin person i have heard a few of you talk about? I hope if Rhea has to go for an interview that she gets someone else :unsure:

The woman i met at the consulate in Cebu was very serious and you could tell she was not ever going to die laughing, but thankfully by the end of our chat she had lightened up a bit...
John

Quoted post

That will be Ms Jacq. Lewin, office manager of Visa section. I've not had the pleasure of meeting her, but I've heard some stories about her...Pete will tell you... :blink: