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View Full Version : Ex-pat Bill returns to Philippines without NHS op on bad leg



joebloggs
16th August 2012, 13:30
a tricky one, 15yrs is a long time

BILL Maudling flies back to the Philippines next week feeling harshly treated and out of pocket after being refused an operation on the NHS.

The former Smith Bros printer returned to his native Whitehaven after an absence of 15 years expecting to have a free National Health Service op which he said was necessary to save one of his legs.

But a few days ago he was told by letter an operation was not considered an emergency.

A North Cumbria University Hospitals NHS Trust deputy director, Paul Wiggins, says in the letter: I understand that you are returning to live abroad without having the operation which Mr Sowinski (West Cumberland Hospital consultant) has now confirmed is not of an emergency nature and was sorry to hear that you were apparently misled about the application of the regulations as to your circumstances.

As agreed with your brother (John Maudling) I have discussed the application of charges for appointments and tests undertaken to date with our deputy director of finance and I am pleased to confirm that no invoice will be raised or payment required.

Bill Maudling told The Whitehaven News on Tuesday that the waived West Cumberland Hospital bill for consultations and tests could have soared to 5,000-10,000 and an operation for blocked arteries costing maybe as much as 20,000.

And thousands of pounds is what Bill estimates its cost him to come back taking in flights, accommodation and transport because he cant walk far.

Before leaving the Philippines for England he believed he could have the operation free of any charge having paid his National Insurance during a 40-year working career in the Whitehaven area.

I dont know what they call an emergency, its going to get worse and worse over time the way things are, one little cut could lead to gangrene and then I would risk losing my leg. I have been in agony with it.

Now the pensioner hopes to have an operation back in the Philippines but still at a sizeable cost.

I reckon it will be about 7,000. My senior citizens card and some health insurance will knock a third off the bill but I will just have to save up.

I have worked all my live, never been on the dole, love Whitehaven and proud to be English so I am really disgusted over whats happened.

I was actually put on the waiting list to have the operation but then I got the bombshell.

read more here
http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/ex-pat-bill-returns-to-philippines-without-nhs-op-on-bad-leg-1.985963?referrerPath=news/

deeen
16th August 2012, 14:00
How does this work, then? I thought anyone with a UK passport was entitled to free treatment with the NHS?

Or did he just walk into A+E and say "I need this operation now" and they basically said "No, you don't"?

imagine
16th August 2012, 14:11
i believe once you have left uk for 6 months or more, you loose your entitlement to nhs, despite the fact you may have paid ni for years previously,

the only way is to move back to uk permanantly

grahamw48
16th August 2012, 15:04
Didn't anyone tell him to throw away his passport and suffer a bout of amnesia ? :rolleyes:

Should have checked with us first.

Honesty doesn't get you anything in this ridiculous country of ours. :NoNo:

Dedworth
16th August 2012, 15:59
Didn't anyone tell him to throw away his passport and suffer a bout of amnesia ? :rolleyes:

Should have checked with us first.

Honesty doesn't get you anything in this ridiculous country of ours. :NoNo:

Exactly - 40 years of tax and NI = Sorry Pal.

Gravy train is rolled out for Romanian pickpockets, maggots jumping off the back of a lorry etc etc

Terpe
16th August 2012, 16:00
....... My senior citizens card and some health insurance will knock a third off the bill but I will just have to save up....

Whoops! There may be trouble ahead.
He's not allowed a senior citizens card. :NoNo:

imagine
16th August 2012, 16:26
Whoops! There may be trouble ahead.
He's not allowed a senior citizens card. :NoNo:

and not a leg to stand on :yikes:

deeen
16th August 2012, 16:42
and not a leg to stand on :yikes:


Yes, sounds like he was going round in circles.

So the important thing for NHS is an address in the UK???
Maybe if I retire to Phils, I will be "staying with my brother in London" ;)

imagine
16th August 2012, 16:48
Yes, sounds like he was going round in circles.

So the important thing for NHS is an address in the UK???
Maybe if I retire to Phils, I will be "staying with my brother in London" ;)

what about your medical records, you might need in phil

Rhose
16th August 2012, 17:00
Yes, sounds like he was going round in circles.

So the important thing for NHS is an address in the UK???
Maybe if I retire to Phils, I will be "staying with my brother in London" ;)
great!! :xxgrinning--00xx3: nothing to worry about the benefits..

Arthur Little
16th August 2012, 18:27
Bill Maudling may not have been resident in the UK for 15 years ... OK. But he IS British ... and, being an elderly, retired person - WHO, throughout a working lifetime of at least four decades, has paid handsomely towards the maintenance of OUR 'Welfare State' ... in terms of hefty taxation and National Insurance contributions :rolleyes: - surely he's entitled to benefit from the free care [at source] provided by the National Health Service.

So WHY SHOULD this :olddude: ... now in desperate need of NHS operative treatment on his leg ... be EXPECTED to *foot (s'cuse *puns in such circumstances) the *bill?

Diabolical! :cwm23:

Steve.r
16th August 2012, 19:08
When I worked abroad I paid a class 2 (i think) contribution which covered me for my NHS cover, I also paid to keep my state pension up to date, even though I was working tax free in the middle east. But I think in this case after years of paying in, it is a pretty poor show.

grahamw48
16th August 2012, 19:24
Doesn't this also affect retirees in places like Spain too ?

I'm sure there was a TV prog about it. :Erm:

Terpe
16th August 2012, 19:29
Doesn't this also affect retirees in places like Spain too ?

I'm sure there was a TV prog about it. :Erm:

Yes Graham your right, it does.
It affects anyone who leaves UK for 6 months or more and cannot prove they have returned to settle here.

Plenty of loopholes. But ............

grahamw48
16th August 2012, 19:44
The biggest loophole is NOT telling anyone you HAVE been out of the country. :rolleyes:

Arthur Little
16th August 2012, 19:49
I think in this case after years of paying in, it is a pretty poor show.

Damned RIGHT it IS, Steve ... :iagree:!

joebloggs
16th August 2012, 20:09
but if he has been living out of the UK for 15yrs, surely he has had private medical insurance in the country he was living in ?
was he a citizen of the other country/countries he was living in, 15yrs is a long time, what kind of visa did he have to live there ?

if he was a citizen of another country dont you think its a bit cheeky coming back to the UK for a free op ? then again he's paid his taxes.. :Erm:

Arthur Little
16th August 2012, 20:17
Slightly :icon_offtopic: perhaps. Nevertheless ... in contrast to poor Mr Maudling's unfortunate predicament, our politicians are perfectly happy to bestow National honours :kngt: on the likes of Sean Connery who - despite claiming to be a proud Scot :Kilt: - evidently prefers to languish :D on Spain's Costa del Sol practically all year round! :crazy:

imagine
16th August 2012, 20:18
although he has been abscent from uk 15 yrs, in all fairness after paying 40 yrs of contribution, surely there ought to be some help if not all,

or a refund of his ni contributions with interest
an illegal will get it , where is the fairness ,

Dedworth
16th August 2012, 20:34
Bill Maudling may not have been resident in the UK for 15 years ... OK. But he IS British ... and, being an elderly, retired person - WHO, throughout a working lifetime of at least four decades, has paid handsomely towards the maintenance of OUR 'Welfare State' ... in terms of hefty taxation and National Insurance contributions :rolleyes: - surely he's entitled to benefit from the free care [at source] provided by the National Health Service.

So WHY SHOULD this :olddude: ... now in desperate need of NHS operative treatment on his leg ... be EXPECTED to *foot (s'cuse *puns in such circumstances) the *bill?

Diabolical! :cwm23:

I fully agree Arthur as usual one rule for us another for Johnny Foreigner

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/321878/-40m-health-tourist-debt

Foreign “health tourists” who cash in on free NHS treatment have run up debts of 40million, an MP revealed yesterday.

Tory Chris Skidmore blasted the “free-for-all” system and urged the Government to issue a clear definition of who is eligible for care in the UK.

Mr Skidmore, a member of the Commons Health Select Committee, said he had found via Freedom of Information requests that just over 40million of debts owed by foreign nationals has been written off by NHS Trusts.

Another survey earlier this month showed the average unpaid Trust bill for providing care to foreigners was 230,000. St George’s Trust in south London had the largest, at 2million.

Mr Skidmore said the NHS “cannot be a free-for-all for everybody to use”, adding: “The NHS is the national health service, it is not an international one and while we all believe that healthcare treatment must be free at the point of use, it cannot be free at the point of abuse.”

Public Health Minister Anne Milton said: “We are currently reviewing arrangements to prevent inappropriate free access to the NHS.”

grahamw48
16th August 2012, 20:41
'Reviewing arrangements' . :NoNo:

WHEN are these fools going to start reviewing the OBVIOUS shortcomings BEFORE the abuse takes place ? :doh

Terpe
16th August 2012, 20:45
'Reviewing arrangements' . :NoNo:

WHEN are these fools going to start reviewing the OBVIOUS shortcomings BEFORE the abuse takes place ? :doh

Beat me to it again! :doh

andy222
16th August 2012, 21:24
In my opinion he should be allowed treatment here if he has paid into the system. You should see the (I will be polite) people I treat every day. If they have paid into the system my name is John Travolta,:rolleyes:

Dedworth
16th August 2012, 21:26
In my opinion he should be allowed treatment here if he has paid into the system. You should see the (I will be polite) people I treat every day. If they have paid into the system my name is John Travolta,:rolleyes:

Nice to meet you Mr Travolta :D

andy222
16th August 2012, 21:55
:laugher: You know it makes sense Delboy.:icon_lol:

deeen
16th August 2012, 22:38
"Tory Chris Skidmore blasted the “free-for-all” system and urged the Government to issue a clear definition of who is eligible for care in the UK."

This was actualy the reason I posted on this thread, what is the eligibility?
A European I know moved to the UK in February, he will be on the electoral roll at his UK address in November, working and paying UK tax for a few months, can he then take advantage of free NHS treatment?

And if so, why not Bill Maudling?

imagine
16th August 2012, 23:29
This was actualy the reason I posted on this thread, what is the eligibility?
A European I know moved to the UK in February, he will be on the electoral roll at his UK address in November, working and paying UK tax for a few months, can he then take advantage of free NHS treatment?

And if so, why not Bill Maudling?

i guess bill maudlings 40 yrs of contributions will cover the european:Erm:

gWaPito
17th August 2012, 00:27
but if he has been living out of the UK for 15yrs, surely he has had private medical insurance in the country he was living in ?
was he a citizen of the other country/countries he was living in, 15yrs is a long time, what kind of visa did he have to live there ?

if he was a citizen of another country dont you think its a bit cheeky coming back to the UK for a free op ? then again he's paid his taxes.. :Erm:
According to my wife the husband of the filipino wife can get a renewable annual visa courtesy of the local barangay of where they are living.

You'll be surprised the amount of people who dont even take out travel insurance for a holiday let alone take out long term health insurance....crazy I know.

Its a bad show when an honest British subject is refused an operation for a life threatening condition...really, a shocking way to carry on when you think the (as quoted by Ded) NHS are gonna write off 40 million in debts chalked (excuse the unintentional pun) up by the illegals....

Complete (I think) health cover in the phils and im going back a bit now, for me was 50 a month and im a good few years off of being a pensioner.

Trefor
17th August 2012, 11:19
I don't think we have all the facts.

"Before leaving the Philippines for England he believed he could have the operation free of any charge having paid his National Insurance during a 40-year working career in the Whitehaven area."

Did he just assume he could walk in, get it done within a week or two and leave?

I read this as the hospital says the operation was not urgent - and it seems this chap wanted it in a hurry? surely if he was living in the UK and spent time getting other opinions etc. then this opinion may be changed?

I agree he should get treatment, but maybe not in the way he is expecting it (as reported).

grahamw48
17th August 2012, 11:24
Yes, you could be right there.

I'm surprised they don't find more dead bodies in the seats in A & E, considering waiting times. :rolleyes:

Too many resources taken up catering for drunken idiots and drug addicts etc. :NoNo:

imagine
17th August 2012, 12:35
he was on the waiting list, but we dont know when, before he came to uk or after, if he was put on waiting list while still in phil, perhaps this mislead him

Terpe
17th August 2012, 12:45
This was actualy the reason I posted on this thread, what is the eligibility?
A European I know moved to the UK in February, he will be on the electoral roll at his UK address in November, working and paying UK tax for a few months, can he then take advantage of free NHS treatment?

And if so, why not Bill Maudling?

Well on getting back to the original question you raised, take a look here at Eligibility Rules (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074373) and follow any links that take your interest.

Basically it states:-


Under the current Regulations, anyone who has spent more than 6 months of the past 12 living outside the UK may no longer be entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. However, depending on your circumstances, you might still be considered ordinarily resident in the UK even if you have been absent for more than 6 months........

....Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. “Ordinarily resident” is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

Anyone who is not ordinarily resident is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident; or exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories; or liable for charges.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

The rules around entitlement to free NHS treatment are actually quite complex, but there are some basic exemptions against charges.


All treatment given by staff at a hospital or by staff employed by a hospital may be subject to a charge with the following exceptions; which are free to all;
Treatment given in an accident and emergency department (excludes emergency treatment given elsewhere in the hospital);

Treatment given in a walk in centre providing similar services to those of an accident and emergency department of a hospital;

Treatment for certain communicable diseases (excluding HIV/AIDS where it is only the first diagnosis and connected counselling sessions that are charge free);

Compulsory psychiatric treatment.

Family planning services


If you enjoy a good read you can brush up on the existing legislation by checking out The National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1556/made)

Just getting back to the main case of the thread, it seems that as a UK state pensioner there are some exemptions to be made also


If you have a UK state retirement pension and have lived in the UK (or been employed as a UK crown servant) for ten continuous years at some point in the past, you will be exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arises during your visit to the UK. This means treatment needed where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion of a doctor or dentist employed by an NHS hospital, treatment is needed quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity, eg dialysis. It does not include routine monitoring of an existing condition such as diabetes.

This exemption extends to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) as long as they are lawfully present with you for the duration of your stay.

We really don't know the medical or other facts, but it seems to me that if this procedure was considered to be either an emergency or was needed to prevent the 'pre-existing condition increasing in severity' then he would not need to pay any charges. Well that's how I read it anyway.

lastlid
17th August 2012, 12:49
Did he just assume he could walk in, get it done within a week or two and leave?



Exactly. That sounds like BUPA, not the NHS. I used to do exactly that with BUPA. Walk in and walk out almost at will, but not with the NHS.

The only time I have been admitted to an NHS hospital was on an emergency basis. And even then the operation was suspended and I eventually got it down through BUPA at the time and date that suited me.


I agree he should get treatment, but maybe not in the way he is expecting it

Yes. Normally, if not an emergency, anyone will have to have waited their turn, with the NHS, surely?

deeen
17th August 2012, 13:01
Wow thanks Terpe, exactly what I was looking for! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

joebloggs
17th August 2012, 13:23
Yes, you could be right there.

I'm surprised they don't find more dead bodies in the seats in A & E, considering waiting times. :rolleyes:

Too many resources taken up catering for drunken idiots and drug addicts etc. :NoNo:

my misses is working 4pm til 2am in A&E she started working those hours on Saturday the 4th Aug and every day since , but had sat/sun 11/12 off :crazy:
i dont know if she is working tomorrow :NoNo:

lastlid
17th August 2012, 13:33
my misses is working 4pm til 2am in A&E she started working those hours on Saturday the 4th Aug and every day since , but had sat/sun 11/12 off :crazy:
i dont know if she is working tomorrow :NoNo:

There is a flip side to this aswell as often it is difficult to be seen by your local GP and thus A and E is a way of getting prompt attention instead of waiting a week for an appointment with the GP.