Unfairness of Life in the UK test

[lordna]

I recently wrote to my MP, Charles Hendry, about the unfairness of the life in the UK test. My email and the letter i received today from Damien Green MP , minister for immigration are below. Comments please as i intend to reply:-

My email to Charles Hendry:-
I am writing to bring your attention to the unfairness of the 'Life in the UK test' now compulsory for all those wishing to remain in the uk. My interest in this is that my wife who is from the Philippines needs to pass this to remain here. My complaints briefly are as follows:- 1) we are requiring immigrants to answer questions that a UK resident couldnt answer correctly. 2). The trst comprises 24 multiple choice questions of which you need to answer 18 correctly. These can be drawn from 6 chapters of the life in the uk booklet. Each time you take the test then you are presented with a new set of questions so you need to remember a vast amount of knowledge to pass as the questiond can be related to anything in the book. 3) The questions are largely irrelevent to day to day life life in the UK ., some being about history, religious groups etc. 4). The price for the test has now risen from £34 to £50 to take the test which is a massive increase and iMHO just exploitation of the many immigrants normally here doing very low paid jobs and working hard to stay in this country.

Could i ask yoiu firstly to look at some of the sample questions (maybe onlune) as i have my doubts that you could pass the test as a UK citizen by birth. Could you then please see that this test is reveiewed to make it fair and look at the costs charged by the test providers. Thankyou in anticipation.


And the reply from Damien Green MP:-
Thank you for your letter of 2 June with enclosures on behalf of Mr ******
Elliott of **********************************, about the
Knowledge of Life test for settlement in the UK.
The Knowledge of Life in the UK requirement was initially introduced as a
statutory requirement for naturalisation as a British citizen, as it was felt that
becoming a British citizen is a significant event in someone's life. If a person
is applying for naturalisation as a British citizen it is reasonable to expect them
to show, amongst other things, that they know about life in the UK. That
knowledge will also enable a person to understand their rights and duties as a
British citizen. This could be demonstrated either by taking a test, or by
attending a English for Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL) with citizenship
course. The Knowledge of Life requirement was extended to settlement
cases in April 2007.
The test itself was devised after an advisory group was set up which brought
together independent experts in citizenship, integration and education from
England, Scotland and Wales, to consider how best to promote language
skills and practical knowledge about the UK for those seeking to become
British citizens. The questions set in the test allow applicants to display a level
of knowledge of what it means to be a citizen of modern, democratic Britain.
The questions themselves are taken from a bank of questions, but are not the
same from test to test in order to make the testing process robust and
meaningful.
Mr Elliott questions why migrants should be expected to know more about life
in the UK than British citizens. It is, in fact, not the case that there is a marked
difference between expectations of knowledge for migrants and those born
here. The Life in the UK handbook closely mirrors the content of the
Citizenship syllabus within the National Curriculum. Migrants are learning
very much the same things about the UK as is expected of school children at
Key Stages 3 and 4.
All the information needed to pass the test is contained in the handbook: 'Life
in the UK: A Journey to Citizenship' (ISBN: 9780113413133). A person
wishing to pass the test is advised to study the handbook. The test itself is
based on the information in Chapters 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the handbook. These
cover: A Changing Society, UK Today: a Profile, How the United Kingdom is
Governed, Everyday Needs, and Employment. I would disagree with Mr
Elliott that this information has no relevance to migrants in the UK. Further,
the historical information in Chapter 1 does not form part of the test.
Mr Elliott also commented on the cost of sitting the test. Ufi deliver the test on
behalf of the Home Office and set the fee at a level which covers the cost of
providing this service securely and across a number of geographical locations.
In the period from 1 April 2010 to 31 March 2011, 193,461 people sat the
Knowledge of Life test. The pass rates on a month to month basis were
between 70 and 74%. The pass rate for April 2011 was 74.17%.

Damien Green MP

[joebloggs]

:xxgrinning--00xx3: for complaining about it ..

the problem is how do you get people to integrate into society, if they cant read, write or speak English, and some of these people have been here decades :cwm24:

[scott&ligaya]

to be honest I was concerned for my mahal as she hates revising for anything even reads a book by 1st page, middle page and last page LOL , and she only ever did 30 mnutes before bed (kept the book under the pillow!!! ) and only for a few weeks, breezed through the test and was 1st out.. I thought she had panicked and just fluffed it, it really is not that hard when you start by being given a one in four chance iof being right and at least one if not answers are clearly wrong so more like 50/50. Plus Joe is right, this is aimed at people who live here for years not speaking English or wanting to understand anything about British culture. Our ladies learn English from 5 years old.

[Dedworth]

the problem is how do you get people to integrate into society, if the cant read, write or speak English, and some of these people have been here decades :cwm24:

If it was up to me I wouldn't even bother trying just ship them out

[Bluebirdjones]

I’m not sure where you’re coming from with this.

Migrants need to assimilate, adapt, and integrate, and to be aware of the institutions, the history of the UK, the political and social make-up of the country…. and the “Life in the UK” test does attempt to address/achieve this.

It is also another piece of the jigsaw, which starts with the English language test/qualification which must accompany the settlement visa application, continues with the Life in the UK test, and ends with citizenship & naturalisation.

Too many times (in my roll as Polling Officer, Polling Clerk, Electoral Registration Officer) have I come across people who are “British”, who have been here many, many years…. but have no basic understanding of English, no comprehension of what is expected or demanded (by law) in the voting or registration process. How have they assimilated ????????????

No examinations are “fair”…… but rules and examinations are for the benefit of all.

Perhaps if you view this test as “unfair”, does this logic also apply to (for example) a UK driving license test ?
Do you advocate that anyone may drive in the UK, as long as they have a license from their country of origin ?

The test is not that difficult……. it is educational, improves your knowledge of the UK and it’s institutions, and hopefully should stimulate debate & conversation between you

[joebloggs]

i think one of the reasons the test was brought in, was the same same reason the spouse age was raised to 21, to stop\reduce forced marriages and abuse from partners from certain cultures\countries, if the spouse had a basic understanding of English they could go to the police or social services and report it.

[grahamw48]

The immigrants whose behaviour led to the bringing in of these tests have nothing whatsoever to do with the Philippines, or Spouses/Fiancees coming from THERE to the UK.

As usual the govt. depts involved are proving themselves to be ignorant, inflexible, politically-correct paranoid idiots.

[Moy]

its PROPAGANDA thats is all about:yikes::icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

its PROPAGANDA thats is all about:yikes::icon_lol:

it's about this :D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/3380376/Marriage-visa-age-raised-to-21-in-bid-to-tackled-forced-weddings.html

[Moy]

in a way i agree to you on that Joebloggs:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

:iagree: with the basic concept of the Test ... in so far as it being desirable for people from overseas wishing to settle in the UK to integrate themselves into the British lifestyle - as much for their own sakes, as for the benefit of the native population - and in this respect it would seem to serve a useful purpose. But, having said that, the Test itself is by NO means a "walkover" ... not least because of its unrealistically high target marks set - 75% or above - in order to score a pass! Truth be told, many born-and-bred Brits - myself included - would be struggling to attain such standards. My wife passed at her first attempt last July ... but then she'd been a schoolteacher for 22 years in the Phils and, admittedly, was already well-disciplined towards the level of study required. And, after all, adequate preparation is the key factor involved in any examination.

Where the unfairness creeps in, is applying the criteria of this - and the new English Language Test - to countries like the Philippines - where English has long been the medium of instruction - while exempting immigrants from continental European nations who speak not a word of our language ... and, morover, have no intention of learning it ... yet are allowed to freely settle here by virtue their EU membership. :angry:

But then ... I'm biased! :anerikke:

[joebloggs]

in a way i agree to you on that Joebloggs:):xxgrinning--00xx3:

its just a pity people from other countires have to suffer becuase of them :doh

[Moy]

very true inded JoeBloggs:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[lordna]

As Arthur says...the pass mark of 75% is very high compared to most UK exams which are normally around 50%. Another unfair aspect is where a question requires 2 answers you dont get awarded any points for 1 right answer aND 1 WRONG.
Also how can they justify an increase from £34 to £50 to sit the exam?
Gladly my wife has passed already but I still think its our duty as UK citizens to challenge something if its wrong for the benefit of others that still have to take the test.
I agree with Arthur that this test is no walkover and contains plenty of stuff irrelevent to life in the uk. Just look at some of the questions online.

[Arthur Little]

how can they justify an increase from £34 to £50 to sit the exam?


:iagree: ... ANOTHER :gp:!

[johncar54]

Passing the exam is fine, but a system which obliged an immigrant to 'become British' in their way of life would be a lot more appropriate.

At present it seems that many whilst wanting to live in UK want it be a life which is the same as that in the country which they came from. It should be that if one wants life to be the same they should be obliged to go to the country which shares their way of life.

There are also a lot of people who seem to believe that customs are religious obligations. I understand that Indonesia has practically no problems about religion as the inhabitants are Indonesians first, and Muslims, Christians etc second.

I live in Spain, I don't expect Spain to be 'little Britain'. I don't expect anything here to be changed to suit me. If I don't like it I don't need to be told by the Spanish what I should do (go back to UK)

(I don't think that most Filipinos living in another country expect that county to change for them, but many others do)

[Dedworth]

Passing the exam is fine, but a system which obliged an immigrant to 'become British' in their way of life would be a lot more appropriate.

At present it seems that many whilst wanting to live in UK want it be a life which is the same as that in the country which they came from. It should be that if one wants life to be the same they should be obliged to go to the country which shares their way of life.

There are also a lot of people who seem to believe that customs are religious obligations. I understand that Indonesia has practically no problems about religion as the inhabitants are Indonesians first, and Muslims, Christians etc second.

I live in Spain, I don't expect Spain to be 'little Britain'. I don't expect anything here to be changed to suit me. If I don't like it I don't need to be told by the Spanish what I should do (go back to UK)

(I don't think that most Filipinos living in another country expect that county to change for them, but many others do)

Good post - you quoted Indonesia the same could be said of Singapore & Malaysia - these last two have the added benefit of a robust attitude towards crime.

I've said before fit in or fcuk off

[sars_notd_virus]

British citizen is a significant event in someone's life. If a person
is applying for naturalisation as a British citizen it is reasonable to expect them
to show, amongst other things, that they know about life in the UK.

I have nothing against it but if only they can give ''appropriate fee'' and ''relevant questions'' :rolleyes::doh

how can they justify an amount of £50 to be able to take a test and sat there for only 10minutes?

the uk population is enthnically diverse and is changing rapidly,especially in large cities as london,so its not always easy to get an exact picture of the ethnic origin of all the population from census statistics...hmm question: how many indian,pakistani,chinese,black carribean black african

bangladeshi and mixed ethnic descent make up the uk population?? answer 8.3%( i think its more than that?) so is that relevant?:crazy:

[Terpe]

...hmm question: how many indian,pakistani,chinese,black carribean black african,bangladeshi and mixed ethnic descent make up the uk population?? answer 8.3%( i think its more than that?) so is that relevant?:crazy:

It's way more than that.
Where did the 8.3% come from?

[Terpe]

It's way more than that.
Where did the 8.3% come from?

OK got it. 2001 census :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[branno]

ive just read three questions on the life in the uk... i got them all wrong...:icon_lol: but in reallity lets look at all those from the middle east and eastern block pouring in to the uk.. i see no integration wot so ever from these people .. especially the kurds and iraqis.
To me this life in the uk test is just another money making scam dreamt up by some twit of a junior minister.. gaining daisies in his portfolio... i see a lot of insults to this test esp as our nhs has been built with lots of over seas Drs, nurses, midwifes, and all other nhs professions...

[tone]

I've read the book as well and to be honest I struggled with some of it when answering the test questions.
I'd like to think I can study and do exams (since leaving school I've done 30 exams and the last one CISSP took 18 months to study and pass the 6 hr exam) and yet I sympathise with your feelings for you're Mahal because mine is the same.
Once my Mahal arrives here I'm going to make sure it's studied weekly so that when the exam comes around she can confidently clear it.
As for the cost it's typically expensive for one reason in my mind "because they can"!

As for the Europeans I personally think they should also have to do this (and TOEIC english test) we would see the net migration to our shores significantly reduced and a better quality of people here who have had to earn it.
Just my 2p's worth!
Tone

[Arthur Little]

As for the Europeans I personally think they should also have to do this (and TOEIC english test) we would see the net migration to our shores significantly reduced and a better quality of people here who have had to earn it.
Just my 2p's worth!
Tone

And a very relevant tuppence worth too, Tone ... :iagree:

Trouble IS, - as I've already mentioned :rolleyes: - continental Europeans are automatically exempted from BOTH Tests because their native countries are EU members. :crazy:!

[grahamw48]

There was a piece on the TV last night about the Roma community in the UK electing their 'King'.

Another community WITHIN a community, complete with 'official' spokesperson.
I don't recall any English being spoken.
Not much integration going on there. :rolleyes:

To be honest, the leadership looked like a bunch of gangsters.

They also appeared to be very comfortably housed in public sector accommodation.

I believe the waiting list for me....resident in my city since the age of 15, is 20 years for similar housing. :NoNo:

Looking on the bright side, I may by that time be lucky enough to have reserved a couple of square yards of York City turf for my grave. :cwm3:

[Dedworth]

The was a piece on the TV last night about the Roma community in the UK :


AFAIC Scum of the Earth

[Arthur Little]

The was a piece on the TV last night about the Roma community in the UK electing their 'King'.

Another community WITHIN a community, complete with 'official' spokesperson.
I don't recall any English being spoken.
Not much integration going on there. :rolleyes:

To be honest, the leadership looked like a bunch of gangsters.

They also appeared to be very comfortably housed in public sector accommodation.

I believe the waiting list for me....resident in my city since the age of 15, is 20 years for similar housing. :NoNo:

Looking on the bright side, I may by that time be lucky enough to have reserved a couple of square yards of York City turf for my grave. :cwm3:

Aye, Graham :rolleyes: ... you have to wonder sometimes if there are ANY advantages at all in being born British!

[grahamw48]

Well, at the moment I can visit Scotland without a passport. :icon_lol:

Can't think of anything else. :Erm:

Maybe I should move to your beautiful part of the world Arthur...plenty of space. :)

...From when I took my boy camping.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/705/campingscotland2008007.jpg

[grahamw48]

Nice Lakes....sorry...LOCHS in Scotland. :)

This is Loch Tay:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5198/campingscotland2008006.jpg

.
.
...but funny houses. :icon_lol:

.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2699/campingscotland2008001.jpg

[lordna]

nice pics of scotland ....but a bit off thread!

Good to see someone else has actually looked at some of the questions.

I agree that a test or something is needed, it just needs a few changes to make it fair. My purpose for raising this topic really was to see a) what others thought and b) maybe suggestions of how it could be made fairer. After collecting any ideas i will then respond to the minister concerned.

[grahamw48]

nice pics of scotland ....but a bit off thread!

Good to see someone else has actually looked at some of the questions.

I agree that a test or something is needed, it just needs a few changes to make it fair. My purpose for raising this topic really was to see a) what others thought and b) maybe suggestions of how it could be made fairer. After collecting any ideas i will then respond to the minister concerned.

No need for the sarcasm. :rolleyes:

Some of us just like to add a bit of interest to the forum...perhaps for the Filipino members who haven't been to the UK.

I won't be stopping just for you, but I will continue to offer advice where appropriate.... or occasionally ask my brother who is Ambassador rank, and a section head at the FCO.

[Dedworth]

... or occasionally ask my brother who is Ambassador rank, and a section head at the FCO.

See if he can have a word in the ear of his opposite number at the DHSS or whatever its called nowadays. The Council housed Romas need investigating as one of their occupations of choice (other than begging, ATM scams and shoplifting) is selling Big Issue magazine. In this neck of the woods they are either dropped off by car or commute in by rail from their Slough council houses. Homeless my ar:censored:e :cwm23:

[johncar54]

A requirement to adopt the way of life, as practised in one's adopted country, would seem to be a more important consideration.

Many people may pass the English Test and then choose to be unlike the indigenous citizens and demand that UK change its laws and customs to suit them.

Many seem to want to believe that racial customs are in fact obligatory religious requirements, when often they are no such thing !

I live in Spain. Whilst I have not become 'Spanish' in all the things I do, I never imply to the indigenous population that my ways are right and theirs are wrong. I try to adopt their way of doing things when I inter-react with Spaniards.

(NB In general I am not including Filipinos in my criticisms about not adopting the local way of life)

[grahamw48]

See if he can have a word in the ear of his opposite number at the DHSS or whatever its called nowadays. The Council housed Romas need investigating as one of their occupations of choice (other than begging, ATM scams and shoplifting) is selling Big Issue magazine. In this neck of the woods they are either dropped off by car or commute in by rail from their Slough council houses. Homeless my ar:censored:e :cwm23:

You can see why I never went into the Diplomatic Corp, and you know what my opinion is ref. Roma activity. :icon_lol:

As you'll know, there is very little govt. inter-departmental co-operation . :rolleyes:
There is certainly a close relationship between UKBA and FCO though.

Big bro' is a year older than me, and mother was joking yesterday about him using his bus pass for the first time recently when his commuter train didn't show up. :olddude: This is a guy who will be earning into 6 figures. You can be sure I'll be teasing him about that. :D

[lordna]

Oh Dear....sorry grahamw48, i certainly didnt intend to be sacastic and wouldnt want to offend anyone so my sincere apologies if i have. the 3 sentences i added were just intended as general comments about those who had replied already. I genuinly did think they were nice pics of scotland and its somewhere i havnt been fortunate enough (yet) to visit. Thanks for your input ...and please do continue.

[macky]

The test is not that hard.. you're given a multiple choice. and.u just need to read the book and understand it..:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Maria B]

As Arthur says...the pass mark of 75% is very high compared to most UK exams which are normally around 50%. Another unfair aspect is where a question requires 2 answers you dont get awarded any points for 1 right answer aND 1 WRONG.
Also how can they justify an increase from £34 to £50 to sit the exam?
Gladly my wife has passed already but I still think its our duty as UK citizens to challenge something if its wrong for the benefit of others that still have to take the test.
I agree with Arthur that this test is no walkover and contains plenty of stuff irrelevent to life in the uk. Just look at some of the questions online.

:yikes: £34 - £50??? this is madness. Although I passed the exam, :Erm:I just couldn't understand on why if you lost your 'life in the UK' notification pass they are not going to release another copy. You have to take the exam again & pay the amount....sounds rubbish! :doh

[Maria B]

The test is not that hard.. you're given a multiple choice. and.u just need to read the book and understand it..:xxgrinning--00xx3:

:xxgrinning--00xx3:agree! :)

[joebloggs]

what is unfair about it is, it does not apply to partners or spouses of EU nationals :angry:

also i think the phils should be on this list ..

3. Meeting the requirement by being a national of a majority English speaking country
How do I meet the requirement if I come from a “majority English speaking country”
An applicant is deemed to meet the language requirement if they are a national of one of the following countries: Antigua and Barbuda; Australia; the Bahamas; Barbados; Belize; Canada; Dominica; Grenada; Guyana; Jamaica; New Zealand; St Kitts and Nevis; St Lucia; St Vincent and the Grenadines; Trinidad and Tobago; United States of America
:angry::angry:

[johncar54]

The test is not that hard.. you're given a multiple choice. and.u just need to read the book and understand it..:xxgrinning--00xx3:

So in effect it is a memory test or an intelligence test ! Thus pointless for the purpose which one might assume it was introduced.

Incidentally: I just had a quick tally. There are about 90 countries in which English is the only, the official or the main language. Including of course Philippines.