Philippines will be the only country in the world.....................

[Tawi2]

Maltese vote yes to divorce, PH to be only country in the world with no divorce

Citizens of the Catholic Mediterranean state of Malta have voted in favor of legalizing divorce, announced Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzo on Sunday, May 29, reports ABS-CBN News. Malta is the only other country apart from the Philippines that bans divorce. It is also the last European country where divorce is considered illegal.

On Saturday, 306,000 of mostly Catholic voters were asked in a non-binding referendum whether the parliament should introduce a divorce law after four years of separation. Legal separation, though widespread in Europe, presents many challenges in re-marrying, reports the article.

Gonzi, who campaigned against divorce, said, "This is not the result I wished for, but the will of the people has to be respected and the parliament should enact a law for the introduction of divorce." He added it was now up to the parliament to legalize the dissolution of marriage.

Pro-divorce leader of the opposition Labor party, Joseph Muscat said in The Guardian that a New Malta had been born. According to the article, Muscat is confident that the anti-divorce law would not thwart the will of the people. The Roman Catholic Church, meanwhile, did not participate in Malta's referendum. However, Malta Archbishop Paul Cremona warned churchgoers that their decision was a choice between building and destroying family values.


http://ph.news.yahoo.com/maltese-vote-yes-divorce-ph-only-country-world-233700342.html

[Arthur Little]

Maltese vote yes to divorce, PH to be only country in the world with no divorce.

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/maltese-vote-yes-divorce-ph-only-country-world-233700342.html

:anerikke: ... sign of the times, I guess! :bigcry: ... sad some respects] ... but mainly realistic! ;)

[subseastu]

I find it amazing that the phils haven't made the seperation / divorce process easier by now. Its a very long winded expensive process. Think it the church in the phils throwing its weight round preventing the govt from passing a bill on making it easier for a very poor large population.

[johncar54]

The Vatican City is the ONLY country which does not allow divorce.

Phil does allow divorce but they euphemistically call it annulment.

Phil does not need to change the law. They just need to start calling a judicial annulment, what it is, a divorce.

[fred]

The Vatican City is the ONLY country which does not allow divorce.

Phil does allow divorce but they euphemistically call it annulment.

Phil does not need to change the law. They just need to start calling a judicial annulment, what it is, a divorce.

I think there is a BIG difference... An annulment means the marriage was null and void from the beginning.. A Divorce is an end to a marriage..
It may be a get out clause that most cannot afford but dont expect any other explanation or changes from the R.P Catholic church any time soon.... IMO.

[johncar54]

I think there is a BIG difference... An annulment means the marriage was null and void from the beginning.. A Divorce is an end to a marriage..
It may be a get out clause that most cannot afford but dont expect any other explanation or changes from the R.P Catholic church any time soon.... IMO.

Fred you are of course exactly correct.

If the process were really annulment, then both parties would be free to marry in the catholic church as there would never have been a marriage i.e. null and void from the start.

But that is of course not so. They are separated, divorced, by the secular legal system, in exactly the same way as couples are divorced in the rest of the world.

Thus it is divorce by another name; it is not annulment.


---------------------------------------------------------------


PS For those who disagree.

Please explain what the difference in reality is between an annulment in Phil and a divorce anywhere else.

[fred]

We both know that it is so,here in the P.I.. Ask any Filipino lawyer and he will confirm that fact.. Ask any Filipino lawyer and he will also confirm the meaning of the word "annulment" according to the law in the Philippines and the Philippine Catholic church.
You and I can read between the lines as much as we wish but the fact remains that there is no divorce in the Philippines and that is that.:doh

[johncar54]

I guess we are both saying the same thing. In reality divorce by another name is alive and well in Phil.

If we don't agree, Please explain what the difference in reality is between an annulment in Phil and a divorce anywhere else

[fred]

If we don't agree, Please explain what the difference in reality is between an annulment in Phil and a divorce anywhere else

In reality,I thought I already did that John!
An annulment in Philippine law means the marriage was null and void from the very beginning.
In short the couple were never married after the annulment was granted..
Forget the connection with annulment and divorce in the R.P... There IS NO DIVORCE IN THE PHILIPPINES according to Filipino law!!
The difference between the Philippines and "every where else" is the law everywhere else and the law here are just not the same.
And thats the reality here in the Philippines!! :icon_lol:

[laurel]

In reality,I thought I already did that John!
An annulment in Philippine law means the marriage was null and void from the very beginning.
In short the couple were never married after the annulment was granted..
Forget the connection with annulment and divorce in the R.P... There IS NO DIVORCE IN THE PHILIPPINES according to Filipino law!!
The difference between the Philippines and "every where else" is the law everywhere else and the law here are just not the same.
And thats the reality here in the Philippines!! :icon_lol:

According to my understanding, Fred is completely spot on.

Annulment means that the marriage never existed....null and void!!!!! from the beginning

A divorce is the end to a recognised marriage

[fred]

John.. After a quick search I found this..One answer to the question about "can a person with an annulled marriage marry in a Catholic church"..
Like most rhetoric from the Catholic bunch it doesnt really make any sense to me..
It is what it is I suppose!



The issue here is the nature of the Sacrament. The Sacrament can only be performed once. You cannot get two Baptisms, for example, or receive communion (the Eucharist) twice in one day. You cannot be given Last Rites (Extreme Unction) more than once. You cannot be married more than once. You can, in a legal sense, but it is not a sacrament. If you have an Annulment, you are declared by the Church to have not been given the Sacrament, probably because you or your partner can be shown to have not been committed to the sanctity of the marriage. It's kind of like Fraud- you said you were committing to a Sacrament of Marriage, but you really weren't. That's an Annulment. This is different from a Legal Annulment, which states from a Legal perspective that a legal marriage did not exist (usually because of some issue of fraud from a legal, not ecclesiastical perspective). If you were not Catholic but Protestant, and later convert to Catholicism, you can be married in a Sacramental marriage- depending on the judgment of the church authority in your area and your specific case- but a good chance. It just depends if the man was Catholic at the time of the INC marriage, on whether the Annulment was legal or ecclesiastical (from the Church) and who he is remarrying and the conditions of that engagement.

If all parties are Catholic and the Annulment was from the Catholic Church, not a Civil Judge, then there should be no problem.

[johncar54]

If the annulment really `proves ' there was never a marriage, "void ab inito" then the couple can remarry in the church as they were NEVER married.

But with almost all 'annulments' in Phil the church would never accept that the marriage never existed, only that the civil proceeding 'got around' the fact.

That is the reason why a persons, whose marriage has been annulled in Phil is not permitted to marry again the in church.


The Church: Grounds for Nullity

A marriage may be declared invalid because at least one of the two parties was not free to consent to the marriage, or did not fully commit to the marriage.

Grounds for nullity include:

Force or grave fear imposed on a person to obtain their consent (canon 1103)
The consent was based on a condition or reservation (canon 1102)
No intention, when marrying, to contract a lifelong relationship (simulation of consent) (canon 1101§2)
The intention, when marrying, to never have children (canon 1101§2)
A serious lack of the discretion necessary to consent to marriage (canon 1095 n.2)
Psychological incapacity to fulfill the obligations of marriage (canon 1095 n.3)


With a Phil civil 'annulment' the conditions accepted to justify it are much more flexible. For example No intention, when marrying, to contract a lifelong relationship (simulation of consent) (canon 1101§2) How many couples in Phil get married genuinely believing that it is only a temporary arrangement ?

[sparky]

I guess we are both saying the same thing. In reality divorce by another name is alive and well in Phil.

If we don't agree, Please explain what the difference in reality is between an annulment in Phil and a divorce anywhere else

about 100,000 peso:D

[malditako]

they wont allow divorce or it will cut the lawyers income

[Arthur Little]

they wont allow divorce or it will cut the lawyers income

:gp:, Grace ... that IS just about the "size" of it!

[sars_notd_virus]

Maltese vote yes to divorce, PH to be only country in the world with no divorce

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Sad but true:NoNo:..I would blame it on Spaniards/Spanish who colonized and ruled the Phils for 300+years and started catholicism in which if your read our Philippine history thres a lot of abuses from the catholic church itself and until now its on going

[johncar54]

.... there's a lot of abuses from the catholic church itself and until now its on going

Sorry but how does that explain that there is no divorce in Phil. (the only country other, than the Vatican City, where there is no divorce )

[sars_notd_virus]

Sorry but how does that explain that there is no divorce in Phil. (the only country other, than the Vatican City, where there is no divorce )

Johncar,if you dont understand my reply on this thread just try to read the Philippine history and the Family Code of the Philippines...then you will realize my logic..

[johncar54]

Johncar,if you dont understand my reply on this thread just try to read the Philippine history and the Family Code of the Philippines...then you will realize my logic..

I have a reasonable knowledge of both, but how can abuse by the church result in no divorce in Phil ?


There are many other countries which have a similar history in relation to Spain. There are also many other catholic countries, but as we know all the others (except Vatican City) have divorce.

(And for that matter many countries have a history of abuse by the catholic church but again that has nor affected their laws on divorce).

[fred]

There are many other countries which have a similar history in relation to Spain. There are also many other catholic countries, but as we know all the others (except Vatican City) have divorce.

You forgot to mention the Philippines John.. There is no divorce there either.

[johncar54]

Fred. I think you misread my post.

I said, " There are many other countries which have a similar history in relation to Spain. There are also many other catholic countries, but as we know all the others (that is of course other than, i-e- in addition to, Phil) (except Vatican City) which have divorce.

[Piamed]

The Vatican City is the ONLY country which does not allow divorce.

Phil does allow divorce but they euphemistically call it annulment.

Phil does not need to change the law. They just need to start calling a judicial annulment, what it is, a divorce.Totally agree!

[Terpe]

This post may be considered by some as "tongue in cheek". Sometimes I do that. I admit it.

Devil's advocate? I do that sometimes too.

I certainly have no intention to offend.

Let me say, I have no real axe to grind one way or any other.

But the fact it is this, It is incorrect to say that the Philippines, as a country or as a nation, has no divorce law.

The Code of Muslim Personal Laws specifically recognizes and allows Islamic divorce.

The law, permits "qualified" men to have multiple wives (up to maximium 4) and at some point in time, to divorce the one ones that they no longer love,like, or want to tolerate.

Unfortunately, no matter how carefully you look into that law you cannot find any provision that allows divorce for women

Reasearch and statistics suggest that conversions to Islam could be on the increase. I have no intention to judge any reasons for such conversions, but it might be said by some people, that such conversions could be just trying to take advantage of any special laws. Either for polygamy or for divorce.

Cynics may suggest it's no wonder that some politicians, movie stars, and other VIPs have ‘converted’ to Islam to take advantage of any special laws.

Does anyone reading about this special law of divorce and polygamy for a small minority think of double standards?

Could it be that some Philippine Laws discriminates against the majority?

[Tawi2]

Could it be that some Philippine Laws discriminates against the majority?
Without doubt some do.................providing the majority are poor ;) I have heard of the conversion to islam wrinkle,its just one of those little wrinkles to get around the long protracted expensive annulment laws of pinas,a bit like presumptive death ;)