human rights...

[branno]

Heartfelt sympathy to the family of the children who were recently given the ultimate death penalty... by the CHINESE...

[gWaPito]

Heartfelt gratitude for the Chinese authorities for standing firm against this evil, drug trafficking.

The prescribed tariff was correct and just

[branno]

Heartfelt gratitude for the Chinese authorities for standing firm against this evil, drug trafficking.

The prescribed tariff was correct and just

im not justifying the offence committed ... gwapito.. im simply expressing my sympathy to the parents... who must me so heart broken at the loss of their children...

[Tawi2]

Heartfelt gratitude for the Chinese authorities for standing firm against this evil, drug trafficking.
Look at the source of most recreational legal drugs in this country,Yup its China itself,only two years ago it was legal to import thousands of kilos of Meph and have them Fedex'ed to your door from China:rolleyes:

[joebloggs]

im not justifying the offence committed ... gwapito.. im simply expressing my sympathy to the parents... who must me so heart broken at the loss of their children...

and don't forget the victims and families that these drugs would have destroyed if these :censored: had not been caught :angry:

now the families of the executed ones know how families of drug addicts feel :NoNo: to have a loved one taken from them...

[branno]

Look at the source of most recreational legal drugs in this country,Yup its China itself,only two years ago it was legal to import thousands of kilos of Meph and have them Fedex'ed to your door from China:rolleyes:

ive also seen many prescibed drugs.. destroy normal people... ohh yeahhh these are safe... .....( spoken by the local practitioner) supplied by legal huge pharmaceutical companies...

[joebloggs]

ive also seen many prescibed drugs.. destroy normal people... ohh yeahhh these are safe... .....( spoken by the local practitioner) supplied by legal huge pharmaceutical companies...

you know people who are now dead from taking prescribed drugs ? which prescribed drugs ??

[branno]

and don't forget the victims and families that these drugs would have destroyed if these :censored: had not been caught :angry:

now the families of the executed ones know how families of drug addicts feel :NoNo: to have a loved one taken from them...

please can i just state that i dont condone any type of drug offence... but we also dont kno the full facts of this particular case concerning the three sentenced to death...

[joebloggs]

more than 4kg of heroin now thats a pretty large fact :doh

so they were innocent :Erm:

I've never forgot the sign when you land in the phils, at the airport where it states drug smugglers face the death penalty, so its not true then, the phil gov pleading with the Chinese not to execute them, bit of hypocrisy there :Erm:

[branno]

you know people who are now dead from taking prescribed drugs ? which prescribed drugs ??

i have worked for a huge pharmaceutical company {no names} that uses carcinagenic substances in some thing that 99 percent of people drink every day... this substance is totally banned in america but the english bma british medical ass... measure it so differently and say its acceptable.. the american say if theres any doubt its banned ..

[Terpe]

you know people who are now dead from taking prescribed drugs ? which prescribed drugs ??
:Erm:

[joebloggs]

if thats true then, and its banned in the USA but not in the UK there would be many more cases of people dying from a certain type of cancer in the uk, dont you think the BMA or others would know :Erm:

[branno]

if thats true then, and its banned in the USA but not in the UK there would be many more cases of people dying from a certain type of cancer in the uk, dont you think the BMA or others would know :Erm:

actually we measure our thresh hold of atmospheric things differently... so wots not acceptable in america is acceptable here... ok

[joebloggs]

:Erm:

if that was about my comment terpe, drugs kill, a prescribed drug would be banned if it killed a small number never mind the numbers heroin or crack kill.

[joebloggs]

actually we measure our thresh hold of atmospheric things differently... so wots not acceptable in america is acceptable here... ok

well i'm sure if people were dying of cancer from something 99% of us take each day, we would soon know about it :rolleyes:

[branno]

more than 4kg of heroin now thats a pretty large fact :doh

so they were innocent :Erm:

I've never forgot the sign when you land in the phils, at the airport where it states drug smugglers face the death penalty, so its not true then, the phil gov pleading with the Chinese not to execute them, bit of hypocrisy there :Erm:

you only have too look at the human rights and the corruption .. so wide spread... even in england

[branno]

well i'm sure if people were dying of cancer from something 99% of us take each day, we would soon know about it :rolleyes:

how slow is cancer or how fast

[joebloggs]

you only have too look at the human rights and the corruption .. so wide spread... even in england

yes and the biggest abuser of victims human rights is the so called 'court of criminal rights' in Brussels.

[KeithD]

Co-Proxamol I used to be on led to around 50 deaths or so a year in the UK, it was banned in about 2006.

[Terpe]

if that was about my comment terpe, drugs kill, a prescribed drug would be banned if it killed a small number never mind the numbers heroin or crack kill.

It was not about your comment. I too was interested in knowing which prescribed drugs.
Maybe I used the wrong quote.

[joebloggs]

how slow is cancer or how fast

6months to 10yrs at a guess, not my guess my wife's guess, shes a doctor...

this has got nothing to do with drug smugglers, thou the CEO should face the same fate as the drug dealers if they are found guilty.. have you forgotten the case in china, where some chemical ended up in children s milk?, i think some children died, the Chinese gov executed the people responsible, no hypocrisy there ..

[branno]

how slow is cancer or how fast

oops my appologies on that last post... wot i meant to say was that we use a carcinogenic substance that has been proven to cause cancer in certain species of animals.. hence why america has totally banned this substance from decaffination of tea and coffee (hint) and also from every other thing its used in...

[branno]

if thats true then, and its banned in the USA but not in the UK there would be many more cases of people dying from a certain type of cancer in the uk, dont you think the BMA or others would know :Erm:


they do kno then they change it to some thing else by just altering its name or by removing one part of its structure

[branno]

lets look at aspbestos.. so slow a killer now we have mdf... micro dense fibre.. we dont kno wots happening with this newish type of material... but like aspbestos we will in yrs to come ..

[branno]

Co-Proxamol I used to be on led to around 50 deaths or so a year in the UK, it was banned in about 2006.

theres just one to begin with.. :)

[branno]

well i'm sure if people were dying of cancer from something 99% of us take each day, we would soon know about it :rolleyes: apart from the chemicals in ur beef n pork u get in the uk... we must also look at the other things ie fruit n veg n medication... even wine now has so many chemicals included.

[joebloggs]

theres just one to begin with.. :)

that was banned, so i take it no one could buy it anywhere if they wanted to :NoNo:



Drug poisoning deaths in 2009, 880 deaths involving heroin or morphine in 2009, a
2 per cent drop compared with 2008. However, deaths involving heroin or morphine are still more than five times higher than levels seen in 1993. The number of deaths involving methadone increased from 378 in 2008 to 408 in 2009, an increase of 8 per cent. This continues the upward trend in deaths related to methadone-poisoning seen since 2002. In 2009 deaths involving cocaine fell for the first time since 2000 to 202. This was a 14 per cent decrease compared with 2008.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=806

[keithAngel]

no death penalty in the phils joe:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

no death penalty in the phils joe:xxgrinning--00xx3:

i've seen the sign keith, and i wasn't :Cuckoo: at the time as my misses confirmed it :xxgrinning--00xx3:

i know they don't do it now, but why have the sign if you don't :D

check on wikipedia

Capital punishment in the the Philippines has a varied history and was abolished on June 24, 2006 (the second time since 1987).

well last time i went to the phils was 2005 i think :doh, a pic of the landing card, death penalty at the bottom

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/PhilippineEmbarkationCard.jpg/285px-PhilippineEmbarkationCard.jpg

[branno]

that was banned, so i take it no one could buy it anywhere if they wanted to :NoNo:



Drug poisoning deaths in 2009, 880 deaths involving heroin or morphine in 2009, a
2 per cent drop compared with 2008. However, deaths involving heroin or morphine are still more than five times higher than levels seen in 1993. The number of deaths involving methadone increased from 378 in 2008 to 408 in 2009, an increase of 8 per cent. This continues the upward trend in deaths related to methadone-poisoning seen since 2002. In 2009 deaths involving cocaine fell for the first time since 2000 to 202. This was a 14 per cent decrease compared with 2008.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=806 smoking kills.. :)

[branno]

6months to 10yrs at a guess, not my guess my wife's guess, shes a doctor...

this has got nothing to do with drug smugglers, thou the CEO should face the same fate as the drug dealers if they are found guilty.. have you forgotten the case in china, where some chemical ended up in children s milk?, i think some children died, the Chinese gov executed the people responsible, no hypocrisy there ..
one micro gram of aspbestos may be 15 yrs to cause a problem... :{

[joebloggs]

smoking kills.. :)

so does boredom :rolleyes:

now your getting :Cuckoo:

i think, god forbid, one of your family or your children became addicted to drugs and died your opinion would change :cwm3:

[keithAngel]

There are 2 inconvienient truths as i see it

You can never stop something when there is a huge demand for it

It is no business of any one what some one else chooses to do with there free will and state of mind

Regulate like alchohol yes tax perhaps try to prohibite and tell lies about the reality and you will create a monster of Criminals with more money and power than many sovriegn states and all the petty crime amongst addicts that so changes our society

And Politicians will be suborned and bought and our law enforcement demoralised

You cant win "the war on drugs" comforting as that thought may be as a sound bite nor will the killing of a few Asians or europeans affect that outcome one iota

Its no more or less sad to loose a family member from road accident illness suicide or overdose and we cant stop any of those either nit pick all you want it wont change a thing nor ritualy putting to death a few pinoys whos crime was to be poor and be caste in the role of scapegoat

[KeithD]

theres just one to begin with.. :)

The people who died were not actually prescribed them though, they belonged to someone else, and the majority were already drug/alcohol abusers.

[raynaputi]

i got an uncle who gone crazy when some guys in the neighborhood gave him drugs when he was 14-15yrs old..and he was admitted to mental hospital at some point but my grandparents couldn't bear to see him there so they just took care of him ever since..he got lost by the time i was in my highschool years (i think he was already in his 40s that time) and upto now we cant find him..i'm sure my grandparents had so much pain and suffered a lot since that day those drug pushers did that to my uncle..but i guess they couldnt identify at that time who they were..what they could only do was to watch him and think my uncle lost his whole life..

[branno]

so does boredom :rolleyes:

now your getting :Cuckoo:

i think, god forbid, one of your family or your children became addicted to drugs and died your opinion would change :cwm3:

my youngest son is 16 hes very dependent on drugs as hes a type one diabetic... altho we dont class these as drugs its medication... so now we open a whole new world of things here... we only think that heroin pot n crack is drugs... i look on a wider scale i also compare paracetamol to to be a major cause of problems.. possibly in breathing problems and other things.. u see we buy things over the counter here in england not knowing of the problems they may cause.. and we also widely accept medication from our lovely family practioner without a question.... its about time we started questioning these things.... u really dont have to give medication for mild cold or head ache.. or strwaberry flavour paracetamol to children for a runny nose... esp sugar free.. now we must look at this form of drug trafficking too... its legal n tolerated.... why... it makes revenue .. :yikes:

[keithAngel]

it ALL makes revenue

[branno]

i got an uncle who gone crazy when some guys in the neighborhood gave him drugs when he was 14-15yrs old..and he was admitted to mental hospital at some point but my grandparents couldn't bear to see him there so they just took care of him ever since..he got lost by the time i was in my highschool years (i think he was already in his 40s that time) and upto now we cant find him..i'm sure my grandparents had so much pain and suffered a lot since that day those drug pushers did that to my uncle..but i guess they couldnt identify at that time who they were..what they could only do was to watch him and think my uncle lost his whole life..
i undestand its so sad..

[branno]

The people who died were not actually prescribed them though, they belonged to someone else, and the majority were already drug/alcohol abusers.

ok .. im addicted to caffiene..

[KeithD]

ok .. im addicted to caffiene..

That's a lifestyle choice :) ... I should be addicted to the meds I've been on over the years, but I'm not. It's all down to will power.

[branno]

it ALL makes revenue

correct kieth... recently ive been listening to my friends parents n friends talking about the medication for high blood n cholestel.. how certain tablets are affecting them badly.. so they have to keep changing medication.. because of the side effects...

[branno]

That's a lifestyle choice :) ... I should be addicted to the meds I've been on over the years, but I'm not. It's all down to will power.

im not so sure about the tea... its very addictive lol

[joebloggs]

There are 2 inconvienient truths as i see it

You can never stop something when there is a huge demand for it

It is no business of any one what some one else chooses to do with there free will and state of mind

Regulate like alchohol yes tax perhaps try to prohibite and tell lies about the reality and you will create a monster of Criminals with more money and power than many sovriegn states and all the petty crime amongst addicts that so changes our society

And Politicians will be suborned and bought and our law enforcement demoralised

You cant win "the war on drugs" comforting as that thought may be as a sound bite nor will the killing of a few Asians or europeans affect that outcome one iota

Its no more or less sad to loose a family member from road accident illness suicide or overdose and we cant stop any of those either nit pick all you want it wont change a thing nor ritualy putting to death a few pinoys whos crime was to be poor and be caste in the role of scapegoat

Keith, god forbid, if you ever have to go and identify the dead body of one of your children or grandchild you'll change your view, I've had to identify the dead body of my younger brother, something i'll never forget, but I'll spare you all the details, but I'm pro life, life hard labour would be a better punishment.

i just hope you dont have to eat those words one day Keith.. you really have no idea about drugs or the effect it has on families, maybe next time your in the uk, you can come and visit my mother, the grave of my step-dad and of my brother,,

if you cant buy the drugs then you can take them, simple as that..

[branno]

There are 2 inconvienient truths as i see it

You can never stop something when there is a huge demand for it

It is no business of any one what some one else chooses to do with there free will and state of mind

Regulate like alchohol yes tax perhaps try to prohibite and tell lies about the reality and you will create a monster of Criminals with more money and power than many sovriegn states and all the petty crime amongst addicts that so changes our society

And Politicians will be suborned and bought and our law enforcement demoralised

You cant win "the war on drugs" comforting as that thought may be as a sound bite nor will the killing of a few Asians or europeans affect that outcome one iota

Its no more or less sad to loose a family member from road accident illness suicide or overdose and we cant stop any of those either nit pick all you want it wont change a thing nor ritualy putting to death a few pinoys whos crime was to be poor and be caste in the role of scapegoat

precisely...scape goats.. but not going off the subject like we have in other areas.. im sorry for the parents too.. and that was my sympathy to begin with .. :)

[joebloggs]

my youngest son is 16 hes very dependent on drugs as hes a type one diabetic... altho we dont class these as drugs its medication... so now we open a whole new world of things here... we only think that heroin pot n crack is drugs... i look on a wider scale i also compare paracetamol to to be a major cause of problems.. possibly in breathing problems and other things.. u see we buy things over the counter here in england not knowing of the problems they may cause.. and we also widely accept medication from our lovely family practioner without a question.... its about time we started questioning these things.... u really dont have to give medication for mild cold or head ache.. or strwaberry flavour paracetamol to children for a runny nose... esp sugar free.. now we must look at this form of drug trafficking too... its legal n tolerated.... why... it makes revenue .. :yikes:

has he threatened to kill you, tried to stab you with a knife or scissors, threatened to burn the house down, stick a syringe in you, been paranoid all the time about ev everything, ? i don't think so, not the same is it :NoNo:

[gWaPito]

My mum nearly died of prescription drugs. An irresponsible general practitioner was to blame.

She was on a repeat prescription of valium. This was in 69. The doctor concerned was never struck off, in fact he was still ' practising' in 2005.

[keithAngel]

I deal with folk high on every substance available in the uk legal and otherwise through out the summer

I can assure you all that my experience gained objectivity is not lickly to be changed through any personal tragedies emotive as those experiences may be

Much more probable through bungy jumping or some hoody trying to evade capture the jungle has been created and now we have to live in it or radicaly rethink our belief systems if we dont want to be overweilmed by it

It wont go away because of ignorance and learned fear nor by repeating the failed mantras of punishment and retribution for what someone decides to do in the privacy of their own house or social group the yanks imprison 700% more and have the largest prison population mostly through there drug laws but it sure isnt stopping peoples recreational useage nor the queue of new dealers

[branno]

My mum nearly died of prescription drugs. An irresponsible general practitioner was to blame.

She was on a repeat prescription of valium. This was in 69. The doctor concerned was never struck off, in fact he was still ' practising' in 2005. now do u understand my point ..

[imagine]

smoking kills.. :)

yes it does and quite legal,, the tobacco and the filter is laced with many other harmful chemicals, and when it lit up the chemicals combine a nice toxic cocktail,the govermont know this as do the manufacturer

[gWaPito]

now do u understand my point ..
Yes, I understand prescription drugs kill, I never doubted you on that but, its the irresponsible quacks doling them out who should be brought to book.

[joebloggs]

I deal with folk high on every substance available in the uk legal and otherwise through out the summer


that's not the same at all, first it doesn't effect you personally or your family, it effects you in your working hours, not 24/7/365 for x years, you go home you get away from those people who are on every substance, many addicts and their families live a 24 hour hell.

well I'm sure if it was your own personal tragedy your opinion would change, that I'm certain of.

oh I'm not for the death penalty, but like i said hard labor, and educating kids, what can and will happen to some of them if they start taking drugs, not just the destruction of them but their family to.

I'm not the one ignorant of it, I've lived with a drug addict for 20yrs, I've watch it kill my brother, and indirectly my stepfather and mother and its effected me, that i have to now take prescribed medicines. All i hope its that I'll live long enough to see little Joe reach 18yrs old.

keith when it effects you personally i know you will change your views.

[imagine]

My mum nearly died of prescription drugs. An irresponsible general practitioner was to blame.

She was on a repeat prescription of valium. This was in 69. The doctor concerned was never struck off, in fact he was still ' practising' in 2005.

my mom was prescribed the same,she was prescribed valium for many years, and was addicted , she chose to come off the drug just 1 year before she died,

my school mates mom, was prescribed, mothers little helper wiz/speed/ as called amfetimin, i remember that we used to pinch them :yikes:

[branno]

my mom was prescribed the same,she was prescribed valium for many years, and was addicted , she chose to come off the drug just 1 year before she died,

my school mates mom, was prescribed, mothers little helper wiz/speed/ as called amfetimin, i remember that we used to pinch them :yikes:

becareful of red horse too i think that contains alchohol lol or formalin ...

[keithAngel]

Joe I appreciate your personal tradgedy but what you describe amongst perhaps a million recreational users is an extreme situation

No one who never drinks alchohol becomes an alchoholic

But we dont ban it and create a criminalised classe any more the Americans tried and it led to a corruption of their system and the rise of gangsterism to this very day

People with grave personality disorders may well do self harm if not noticed in time and using opiates to escape the unrecognised pain they find themselves in is exacerbated by the need to get the next fix which in turn leads to the terrible effects you describe and the breakdown of family and relationships and has a huge negative effect on our society as a whole

Its not in my opinion though possible in the slightest to legislate or punish this away

Whats happening is a sub culture that no longer owes any alligance to the folk who seek to criminalise them

And a disproportionate amount of retoric from our "leaders" that no-one really believes

There is no longer any consensus over the responcabilties and freedom of the individual in relation to the state that acts ever more as revenue collectors rather than facilitators of its Citizens

Visas for our good ladies is a prime example

Freedom is risky but the alternatives are to me unthinkable as our abilitie to choose for ourselves becomes ever more eroded

[joebloggs]

:icon_lol: Keith extreme , it's more common than you think,

Swansea Love Story - Episode 1
http://www.uk-rehab.com/page5.php

i fear for your grandchildren, if you dont....

[Doc Alan]

I'm not prepared to add yet another opinion to a thread which started off with the title "Human rights...".
A few facts are necessary.
The British Medical Association is a trade union. They contribute to the British National Formulary which lists prescribed drugs. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) and Scottish Medicines Consortium (SMC) decide on what may be prescribed, ultimately and inevitably based on human trials.
Medicines should only be prescribed when they are necessary, and the benefits must be considered in relation to the risks involved. The Hippocratic Oath includes this clause :- "I will not provide treatments that are pointless or harmful, or which an informed and competent patient refuses".
Controlled drugs are governed in the UK by The Misuse of Drugs Act (1971), and The Misuse of Drugs Regulations (2001). The penalties applicable to offences involving different drugs are graded according to the harmfulness attributed to the drug when it is misused. They are defined in three Classes (A, B, and C). The Regulations define who is authorised to supply and possess controlled drugs, which are divided into five Schedules.
No system is perfect and there are arguments for and against "legalising" controlled drugs.
Cancer affects 1 in 3 and kills 1 in 5 of the population. There are many different types, and they vary in frequency between different populations ( UK and Philippines, for example). Smoking and diet, however, are major predisposing causes in both countries, as elsewhere in the world. As every cancer starts off as a single cell mutation, and they all consist of a purposeless proliferation of cells, it is impossible to say how long each cancer takes to develop. It's likely to be years and the best hope for cure is to diagnose as early as possible.
My posts are non-judgemental, merely providing facts where they are known.

[gWaPito]

Controlled drugs acts 1971 and 2001. All a bit late in the day considering controlled drugs were about decades earlier. Too late for the thousands upon thousands of people dying of such abuse.

The 1 in 5 dying of cancer is a shock, is that the average worldwide statistics or in the uk only?

[joebloggs]

The 1 in 5 dying of cancer is a shock, is that the average worldwide statistics or in the uk only?

depends what age they are, you have to die from something :Erm:

[JimOttley]

That should not be a shock Gwap it's been well known and published for a hell of a long time, the rate will increase with time as the older you get the poorer your DNA replication becomes i.e. the more mistakes are made in each new copy of a cell, think photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, they look like crap by the time you get to the third or fourth iteration. As more and more people live to great age the more cancer will be the ultimate cause of death.

And the reason you get old is exactly the same, cells make mistakes, skin becomes less elastic, hair follicles become less prolific, hormones levels change because the glands making them change, cancer happens ultimately because cells make mistakes, sometime serious mistakes, when making copies of themselves, it's life you just have to accept it, generally we are living longer so more of us will die of cancer.

You should also understand that controlled drugs still have a place in medicine, controlled drugs can still be therapeutic.

[JimOttley]

Doc Alan an excellent statement of the facts :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Doc Alan]

Since you ask, it is estimated that 10 million new cases of cancer are diagnosed each year in the world, with 1/8 deaths worldwide. I've already given this sort of information in "Health Issues". The figures I quoted were for UK and Philippines. I do wonder how many times, and in how many threads, I need to repeat the information. The issues around drugs have also been discussed many times in the past year. If the solution was as straightforward as some seem to believe, there would not be different laws around the world. There are indeed "thousands upon thousands of deaths" from drug abuse, albeit a tiny fraction of the millions dying in the world from heart disease ( more than cancer), smoking and alcohol abuse. There are a million preventable deaths annually from malaria. The list goes on.
The issue is not just the relative numbers involved, but also the means by which illness and death from ANY cause can be reduced. Every single death is a tragedy, all the more so if it is premature. But until the unlikely scenario of cryopreservation being widespread, the best we can hope for is increased life expectancy in our two countries. That depends on individuals as well as Governments.

[Doc Alan]

depends what age they are, you have to die from something :Erm:
Correct. As life expectancy improves, when people eventually die, the proportion of deaths from different causes changes. At the risk of repeating what I have said in other threads, most common serious diseases are the result of lifestyle, whether by choice or not. Over 80% of cancers are related to environmental factors. Risk factors for the commonest killing disease in the UK, Philippines, and the world - cardiovascular disease - are well known. Drugs, alcohol , and smoking are obvious factors affecting life expectancy - the controversy is how to control, and how much to control, them.

[gWaPito]

That should not be a shock Gwap it's been well known and published for a hell of a long time, the rate will increase with time as the older you get the poorer your DNA replication becomes i.e. the more mistakes are made in each new copy of a cell, think photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, they look like crap by the time you get to the third or fourth iteration. As more and more people live to great age the more cancer will be the ultimate cause of death.

And the reason you get old is exactly the same, cells make mistakes, skin becomes less elastic, hair follicles become less prolific, hormones levels change because the glands making them change, cancer happens ultimately because cells make mistakes, sometime serious mistakes, when making copies of themselves, it's life you just have to accept it, generally we are living longer so more of us will die of cancer.

You should also understand that controlled drugs still have a place in medicine, controlled drugs can still be therapeutic.

Points taken Jim and Joe
We all gotta die somewhen so, why not cancer.

I got nothing against prescribed drugs, its the mis prescribing I gotta problem with.

As for street drugs, that's another matter.

[Doc Alan]

Points taken Jim and Joe
We all gotta die somewhen so, why not cancer.

I got nothing against prescribed drugs, its the mis prescribing I gotta problem with.

As for street drugs, that's another matter.
I did actually make a few points and gave the facts, not opinions, on all these three issues you raise, to help you and others.
Most ( not all ) people wish for a long life and to die from natural causes peacefully at home, surrounded by their loved ones. That's a desirable human right. Cancer, with all the associated pain and suffering, is not an ideal choice, and individuals can reduce their chances of getting it.
Apart from natural causes (the commonest), there are only three other ways to die : suicide, homicide, and misadventure. Sadly drugs ( legal and illegal ) do contribute to these. Mis-prescribing by doctors is regrettable, not part of our Hippocratic Oath, but thankfully uncommon.

[fred]

Capital punishment in the the Philippines has a varied history and was abolished on June 24, 2006 (the second time since 1987).

well last time i went to the phils was 2005 i think , a pic of the landing card, death penalty at the bottom

So that's why you saw it on the boarding card in 2005!!
I personally would prefer a death sentence than life imprisonment in a Filipino or Chinese gaol.
IMO the dealers that organise the mules are the ones that should be tracked down and put to death..
Ironically most of them are Chinese businessmen funding Chinese syndicates operating in the Philippines that are all living the high life whilst they send the stupid uneducated and desperately poor mules over to their deaths..

Executing a few of these insignificant drug traffickers will do nothing to resolve the problem..IMO it will make it worse as these illegal drugs will simply go up in value due to the higher risks in transporting it.
In the medium to long term it will make these Chinese drug syndicates far more powerful then they are today.
My sympathies go out to the families of those executed.:bigcry:

[KeithD]

....you have to die from something :Erm:

:yikes::yikes: WHAT!!!! :yikes::yikes: First I've heard of this :cwm24:

[Doc Alan]

:yikes::yikes: WHAT!!!! :yikes::yikes: First I've heard of this :cwm24:
Correct ! Only 4 possible causes ( see my last post ).
Thawing out after cryopreservation would happen with global warming and reveal the cause(s), by which time there could be a cure, but don't count on it :yikes:.

[joebloggs]

Correct ! Only 4 possible causes ( see my last post ).


your list doesn't include tar and feathering by mancs :rolleyes:

[sars_notd_virus]

Human Rights

Heartfelt sympathy to the family of the children who were recently given the ultimate death penalty... by the CHINESE...


precisely...scape goats.. but not going off the subject like we have in other areas.. im sorry for the parents too.. and that was my sympathy to begin with .. :)

thats why we got a system of rules and guidelines to follow, in simple terms a 'law' usually enforced through a set of institutions,countries etc and we are meant to abide by it.

[Doc Alan]

your list doesn't include tar and feathering by mancs :rolleyes:
... of scousers ? ... Natural causes :icon_lol:

[joebloggs]

So that's why you saw it on the boarding card in 2005!!


i'm sure I've also seen a sign at the airport b4 you get to immigration ..

yes i agree with you, mules are the mugs, their not the big fish, but if the gang can't get the mules then these gangs would have to do it themselves and risk getting caught.

the phils has got its own drug problems, no where is safe for kids :NoNo:

[keithAngel]

thats why we got a system of rules and guidelines to follow, in simple terms a 'law' usually enforced through a set of institutions,countries etc and we are meant to abide by it.

Except in the Phils :icon_lol:

Where its a bit more abitary

[gWaPito]

No sympathies for both sets, both bring death

[joebloggs]

No sympathies for both sets, both bring death

for once we agree gWaPito :D, when it effects them or their family they will change their minds :NoNo:, but then its too late :doh

pitty this thread is not about the rights of victims, all you hear from the court of human rights, is the rights of criminals. :angry:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/04/30/drug-dealer-beaten-up-by-vigilante-for-selling-heroin-to-schoolkids-86908-22222801/

i better bury my head in the sand, maybe people like this will go away :rolleyes:

the guy should have got a medal..

[Doc Alan]

I know how busy members are, but when I answer the questions they raise in their posts, only to have them ignored, it raises a bigger question in my mind, why bother ?

[joebloggs]

I know how busy members are, but when I answer the questions they raise in their posts, only to have them ignored, it raises a bigger question in my mind, why bother ?

doc alan, i read all your posts, your a good doc not to criticize people :rolleyes:

[imagine]

I know how busy members are, but when I answer the questions they raise in their posts, only to have them ignored, it raises a bigger question in my mind, why bother ?

your posts are always filled with interesting facts and figures, good reading:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[sars_notd_virus]

Except in the Phils :icon_lol:

Where its a bit more abitary

arbitrary??? I don't think so, its all over the world keith!!

[gWaPito]

Sorry Doc Alan, roll out the red carpet with a round of applause.:Sex:

My kids teenage years were a nightmare, luckily they didn't become addicts and are now leading respectable adult lives with good careers, unlike there truck driving dad!!

A great many of there friends at the time weren't so lucky.

[branno]

So that's why you saw it on the boarding card in 2005!!
I personally would prefer a death sentence than life imprisonment in a Filipino or Chinese gaol.
IMO the dealers that organise the mules are the ones that should be tracked down and put to death..
Ironically most of them are Chinese businessmen funding Chinese syndicates operating in the Philippines that are all living the high life whilst they send the stupid uneducated and desperately poor mules over to their deaths..

Executing a few of these insignificant drug traffickers will do nothing to resolve the problem..IMO it will make it worse as these illegal drugs will simply go up in value due to the higher risks in transporting it.
In the medium to long term it will make these Chinese drug syndicates far more powerful then they are today.
My sympathies go out to the families of those executed.:bigcry:

thats where my sympathy lies too...

[keithAngel]

The problem is guys that nomatter what you think or say your kids and grandkids lives are not yours to make desisions about beyond the love and guidance you have found in yourselves to give them and that they are able to recieve.

The way things stand now in mho it less safe each day and clearly no amount of executions or wishfull thinking on anyones part will change it

We are potentialy rational humans but fear and greed seem to have made us collectively dumb beyond belief

[gWaPito]

These drug trafficers are not all uneducated types.

T hey gamble with there liberty for riches they would have to work years for in the normal conventional way, like most law abiding people.

I do understand your sympathies towards the families concerned.

A shame the convicted didn't spare a thought for there loved ones before embarking on an adventure of folly.

[gWaPito]

The problem is guys that nomatter what you think or say your kids and grandkids lives are not yours to make desisions about beyond the love and guidance you have found in yourselves to give them and that they are able to recieve.

The way things stand now in mho it less safe each day and clearly no amount of executions or wishfull thinking on anyones part will change it

We are potentialy rational humans but fear and greed seem to have made us collectively dumb beyond belief

I take it, the last sentence was directed towards the dealers and trafficers?

I know Keith, we can't lead our childrens lives but, its a lot easier said than done.

You've been extremely lucky with yours and it is luck keith, many a good parent like yourself have lost because of this evil.

[keithAngel]

Gwap im sure with the brains we both have if we set our minds to it the pool of naive desperate folks just in the Phils would supply an endless stream of ordinary folk who would believe whatever we tell them if they thought they could improve the lot of there families

[joebloggs]

Gwap im sure with the brains we both have if we set our minds to it the pool of naive desperate folks just in the Phils would supply an endless stream of ordinary folk who would believe whatever we tell them if they thought they could improve the lot of there families

so what is your answer then Keith ?

i would have rather they got life in prison than be executed, but it means they will never be able to smuggle drugs again, and a warning to others, get caught it will cost you your life.

[branno]

its nice reading ur replies doc..... but i too think the thread went off at a different trajectory...incidently ive just been reading an article on human rights in china.. and as of 2008 china is still the country with the highest number of executions 1,718 people were executed...there are 68 crimes punishable by death.. and one is for tax fraud... ouch..

[keithAngel]

What they want Joe is the ability to work and put rice on the table just like us:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

What they want Joe is the ability to work and put rice on the table just like us:xxgrinning--00xx3:

i was talking about the drugs problem,
but no one is stopping them working, many in the phils work, yes they work for little thou, but most earn enough to put rice on the tablet without the need to commit crimes :NoNo: it comes down to greed and not giving a :censored: about the results of their crimes..

[keithAngel]

there was a strong suggestion in the china case they were recruted by a duff agent and thought they had jobs to go to:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[branno]

and the chinese govenment have admitted that they are fully aware of the chinese drug dealers involved... but i dont think they wil get invloved with those big boys in the mafia world...

[gWaPito]

What they want Joe is the ability to work and put rice on the table just like us:xxgrinning--00xx3:

The winds of change blowing a typhoon through North Africa could do well heading towards the China seas making land fall on The Philippines.

They missed there window of opportunity with the Americans 50 odd years ago, surely it's there time again to turn things around.

[fred]

and the chinese govenment have admitted that they are fully aware of the chinese drug dealers involved... but i dont think they wil get invloved with those big boys in the mafia world...

Exactly!! But they will continue to execute duped mules to make it look as if something is being done!!
Some people are so damned gullible!! :NoNo:

[keithAngel]

Exactly!! But they will continue to execute duped mules to make it look as if something is being done!!
Some people are so damned gullible!! :NoNo:

Couldnt agree more Fred:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[branno]

more research and tests shud be done on these medications before they are allowed to reach or be sold to the pharmacists... its quite scarey wots out there.

[keithAngel]

Dont rock the boat the supply of guini pigs is endless:rolleyes:

[branno]

so true :)

[joebloggs]

Dont rock the boat the supply of guini pigs is endless:rolleyes:

:xxgrinning--00xx3: human ones, start with those overflowing prisons :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[branno]

ive just read that in 2009 the chinese executed nearly two thousand people.. an average of 40 each week.. 68 crimes are punishable by death.. one is tax fraud... pheww

[branno]

ive just read more on the thatcher n pinochet period omg bae even gave him millions ... frightening ..:cwm3:

[Dr Graham]

If we measure the "Evilness" of Drugs by the Deaths and Misery they cause, and the Cost to the Nation for "Repairing the Damage they Cause", then NOTHING comes close to Nicotine or Alcohol.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in the UK DIE EACH YEAR as a result of the Cancers Caused by Cigarette Smoking, and Nicotine is also one of the MOST NARCOTIC DRUGS there are !

Alcohol also causes TENS of THOUSANDS of DEATHS EACH YEAR, and through the Road Traffic Accidents caused by Drunk Drivers, many of it's Victims are Young Children and people who may never have drunk a single drop of Alcohol in their lives !

Even if we IGNORE the all the "Deaths through Disease" that Nicotine causes, it's still responsible for MORE DEATHS than ALL Class A, B and C Drugs ADDED TOGETHER ! ...... because "Carelessly Discarded Cigarettes" is the Largest Single Cause of Domestic Fires in the UK.

People "Under the Influence of Alcohol" cause the NHS Hundreds of MILLIONS of POUNDS EVERY YEAR, not just for their own treatment, but also for the treatment of all their Fight Victims, and the cost of Damage caused to Premises and Business by Drunks, runs into BILLIONS !!!

[branno]

If we measure the "Evilness" of Drugs by the Deaths and Misery they cause, and the Cost to the Nation for "Repairing the Damage they Cause", then NOTHING comes close to Nicotine or Alcohol.

TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in the UK DIE EACH YEAR as a result of the Cancers Caused by Cigarette Smoking, and Nicotine is also one of the MOST NARCOTIC DRUGS there are !

Alcohol also causes TENS of THOUSANDS of DEATHS EACH YEAR, and through the Road Traffic Accidents caused by Drunk Drivers, many of it's Victims are Young Children and people who may never have drunk a single drop of Alcohol in their lives !

Even if we IGNORE the all the "Deaths through Disease" that Nicotine causes, it's still responsible for MORE DEATHS than ALL Class A, B and C Drugs ADDED TOGETHER ! ...... because "Carelessly Discarded Cigarettes" is the Largest Single Cause of Domestic Fires in the UK.

People "Under the Influence of Alcohol" cause the NHS Hundreds of MILLIONS of POUNDS EVERY YEAR, not just for their own treatment, but also for the treatment of all their Fight Victims, and the cost of Damage caused to Premises and Business by Drunks, runs into BILLIONS !!!

and your point is doc ...?

[branno]

may i ask... wot does a war cost... ?

[branno]

who can we believe theses days. or even in them days... but i think the tories showed there true colours over the pinochet case... one of the worst human rights abusers that thathcher enjoyed chocolates and tea from.... :)