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  1. #1
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    Dual nationality Irish and RoP

    If one has dual nationality, is there any substantial and/or legal reason for requiring to maintain both of them as valid ?

    A friend who has a vaid Irish PP believes she must keep her R.o.P PP valid for travel to R.o.P.

    I would have thought if a Filipino national, who can prove that by other paperwork, even though she travels and arrives in RoP on an Irish PP, is entitled to enter the county without any formality and stay for as long as she wishes, even permanently.

    Legal views on this would be appreciated

    John



  2. #2
    Moderator fred's Avatar
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    If she`s in Ireland,I`d advise she renews her R.P passport THERE at R.P embassy in Ireland because they act weird here when presented with expired documents..
    They are supposed to use their R.P PP when entering the country and visa versa when arriving back in Ireland..
    The only way to test your other theory is to advise her to renew her PP and take it with her...When she arrives in R.P immigration,tell her to present her Irish passport and her Dual cert document...See what happens!
    If they request her valid R.P passport,she can then ask them if that is necessary...Post what they tell her here.
    Last edited by fred; 27th April 2018 at 14:57.


  3. #3
    Moderator Arthur Little's Avatar
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    Funilly enough ... ... I'd been wondering much the same thing as John as regards my own wife - ALSO a dual citizen - whose Philippine Passport's validity will expire several months ahead of our [planned] visit in November/December.

    However, the response to John's post seems to answer that question ...


  4. #4
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    Thanks for the comments guys.

    I was a police liaison officer with passport office in UK so have/had considerable background knowledge about UK passports, including myths and misunderstandings. It is for that reason I ask what the law demands, not because I want to test what an officer at the immigration desk might understand/misunderstand about the law, but why anyone needs to go to the expense and inconvenience of renewing a PP if it is not a legal requirement.

    I know UK nationals do not need a PP to enter UK. I cannot believe the same does not apply to RoP. After all, how many Filipinos who have never travelled have a PP, thus not a requirement to live there.

    I know, in most circumstances airlines will not let one travel without a valid PP but that is not the law but the rules which apply to airline repatriating passengers who are not permitted to enter countries.



    John


  5. #5
    Moderator fred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncar54 View Post
    Thanks the comments guys.

    I was a police liaison officer with passport office in UK so have/had considerable background knowledge about UK passports. It is for that reason I ask what the law demands, not because I want to test what an officer at the immigration desk might understand/misunderstand about the law.

    I know that a UK national does not need a PP to enter UK. However in most circumstances the airlines will not let one travel to UK without a valid PP. I cannot believe the same does not apply to RoP. After all, how many Filipinos who have never traveled have a PP, thus not a requirement to live there.

    John
    Its not compulsory for a Filipino to have a passport is it!
    A Filipino returning home using only an Irish passport will be issued a Balikbayan stamp which is a one year visa free stay.. Presentation of an expired R.P passport is not evidence of dual nationality.Obviously..If they had a valid Filipino passport they would need no visa at all.

    I know that a UK national does not need a PP to enter UK.
    So what I.D would they need at UK immigration if they had no passport and how would they have been able to travel without one in any scenario ?
    I`m pretty sure I could persuade an airline to let me travel to my home country if I had lets say a month left of validity but I doubt I could swing it if it was expired.


  6. #6
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    When travelling to one’s home country, or an EU national travelling within the EU, they only need the PP to be valid on the day of travel. So up and including the expiry date.

    I have worked with the police in Spain for 20 years. From time to time people report the loss of their PP. If there is insufficient time to obtain an emergency travel document from the consulate, they are usually permitted to travel using the police report and other ID which is acceptable to the person checking it on the day of travel.

    But I still have the question about a Filipino National entering RoP on a non Philippines PP I cannot believe they can be restricted as to how long they can stay.

    PS I have not suggested a person would be allowed to travel without a valid PP or proof they had one, (as when it was lost).

    PPS Presentation of an expired RoP PP I would think proves one is a RoP national, thus entitled to entry RoP without any formality and stay for as long as they wish, including forever.


  7. #7
    Admin's Assistant ^_^ raynaputi's Avatar
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    There would be no problem entering Philippines in her Irish passport. Just like what Fred said, she'll get a one year balikbayan stamp. It's because she will be considered as a foreigner and former Filipino. If she wants full Filipino rights, she can present her certificate of re-acquisition she got when she had the ceremony at Philippine embassy to re-acquire her Filipino citizenship, along with her Irish passport.
    -=rayna.keith=-
    ...When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible...



  8. #8
    Moderator fred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncar54 View Post
    When travelling to one’s home country, or an EU national travelling within the EU, they only need the PP to be valid on the day of travel. So up and including the expiry date.

    I have worked with the police in Spain for 20 years. From time to time people report the loss of their PP. If there is insufficient time to obtain an emergency travel document from the consulate, they are usually permitted to travel using the police report and other ID which is acceptable to the person checking it on the day of travel.

    But I still have the question about a Filipino National entering RoP on a non Philippines PP I cannot believe they can be restricted as to how long they can stay.

    PS I have not suggested a person would be allowed to travel without a valid PP or proof they had one, (as when it was lost).

    PPS Presentation of an expired RoP PP I would think proves one is a RoP national, thus entitled to entry RoP without any formality and stay for as long as they wish, including forever.
    John..You are quite entitled to believe whatever you wish and then advise your friend accordingly.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    John..You are quite entitled to believe whatever you wish and then advise your friend accordingly.
    Sorry Fred but I am getting the impression you may suspect I am being argumentative about this.

    I started the thread saying "Legal views on this would be appreciated". That is because, with a legal background, I really want to know from a legal stand point.

    Regards
    John

    Raynaputi,

    Thanks for your post.

    Do I understand you to mean, that as a Filipino who has acquired Irish nationality, although she did not not take any steps to relinquinice her Filipino Nationality, she has or may have inadvertently relinquished it just by having obtained Irish nationality ?

    Having read your post, I researched that possibility, but to me it appears less than clear.

    http://www.philembassymadrid.com/dual-citizenship

    QUOTE:_

    RETENTION AND RE-ACQUISITION OF PHILIPPINE CITIZENSHIP UNDER RA 9225 (DUAL CITIZENSHIP)

    Dual Citizenship


    Republic Act 9225 (RA 9225) or the Citizenship Retention and Re-acquisition Act of 2003 (more popularly known as the Dual Citizenship Law) allows natural-born Filipinos who have become naturalized citizens of another country to retain or re-acquire their Filipino citizenship. Upon reacquiring Philippine citizenship, the citizens shall enjoy full civil and political rights as Filipinos, subject to certain conditions. if that would happen, ).

    (I changed colour to red)

    NB When obtaining Irish nationality as with UK (and even Spanish as a national of a former Spanish colony) one may legally hold dual nationality.

    I look forward to reading your understanding on this.

    Thanks
    John


  10. #10
    Moderator fred's Avatar
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    Sorry Fred but I am getting the impression you may suspect I am being argumentative about this.

    I started the thread saying "Legal views on this would be appreciated". That is because, with a legal background, I really want to know from a legal stand point.
    If you think I`m wrong then you have every right to check other avenues or answers..No problem as I would do the same..
    My kids were born in the UK and are dual nationals..Even before they become dual nationals they were according to the Philippine constitution "Natural born Filipino`s" simply because their Mother is one..
    They spent their first 8-10 years in the UK and have been over here with us since.. Their UK PP`s were renewed last year but their Fil PP`s expired about 2 years ago.. If we tried to travel out on their Brit passports,immigration would tell them that they couldn't leave without paying 10 years visa over stay!
    The advice given to us years ago holds true..Dual`s need two passports if they want visa free hassles..
    I guess I could argue with immigration that they are Filipino`s and never needed a visa but I reckon we would miss the flight.
    For me,it ain`t worth it and we are waiting 5 months for their PP renewal appointment before even thinking about travelling.


  11. #11
    Respected Member SimonH's Avatar
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  12. #12
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    Simon as you say this is getting more confusing.

    I was only hoping to clarify the situation for Filipinos with dual nationality, in that they need not have the inconvenience and expense of renewing their RoP passports.

    Having looked at your reference, is it saying that a Filipino national who obtains UK or Irish nationality automatically ceases to be a Filipino, in that they need a privilege to enter and stay up to a year in their country without a visa ?

    I cannot imagine, almost any Filipino, would choose to renounce their Filipino nationality when they acquire say UK or Irish nationality, that not being a requirement in UK nor Ireland.


    To UK nationals it would never occur to them that if they did not renounce their UK nationality they could just lose it.

    When I took up my right to dual Irish nationality I never thought for a moment I might lose any of my rights as a UK national and of course one does not. I maybe mistakenly thought all other nationals would have the same inalienable rights.

    If I enter the UK using my Irish passport, I am still treated as British with no loss of my rights as such.

    I appreciate that what may seem obvious to a national i.e. "of course that's the way it is" may seem almost unbelievable to others. I remember learning that a Filipino needed to attend a CFO seminar and get a DFA stamp before they would be allowed to go abroad. Of course in UK one can leave the country whenever they wish without any permission. I know in Spain many things which are accepted as normal, seem very odd to those from other countries.


  13. #13
    Admin's Assistant ^_^ raynaputi's Avatar
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    Techically, when a Filipino chooses to acquire a new nationality, i.e. Irish or British in my case, he/she is renouncing her Filipino nationality. In the eyes of the Philippine government, he/she is now a foreign national. If he/she wants to reacquire the Philippine nationality, he/she must apply for re-acquisition of it (it's in the Philippine embassy website if you want to check the process and documents needed). This will make him/her a dual citizen, i.e. of Ireland and Philippines. But not all countries allow such things. I believe Japan doesn't permit its citizens to have dual nationality (a friend has a Japanese colleague who told her that).
    -=rayna.keith=-
    ...When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible...



  14. #14
    Trusted Member grahamw48's Avatar
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    My eldest son also has dual nationality (UK/Phil) Born in England. I procured 'Recognition' (as a Filipino Citizen) status and certificate for him, from the BI in Manila, back when he was 2 years old.

    It has his (baby ...lol) photo, and more importantly, his thumb print, on the certificate.

    He could use this to apply for a Philippines passport, if he wanted one.

    It also means he can reside in the Phils with all the rights of any other Citizen (and visa-free).


  15. #15
    Moderator fred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahamw48 View Post

    It also means he can reside in the Phils with all the rights of any other Citizen (and visa-free).
    Almost everything Graham...About the only thing he can`t do is run for public office.. How cool is that!


  16. #16
    Trusted Member grahamw48's Avatar
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    Oh dear ... banned from having his hand in the till you mean ?

    Fortunately he was better brought-up than that.

    Funny how they don't consider their own 'pure-bred' ladies good enough for international beauty pageants though, eh ?


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